AIBU to ask how any barristers out there cope with their work + family?

[user1488204592]

Hi all-

Long time user but new account for this (couldn't name change because I can't remember password!) I would really love to become a barrister (definitely not crime) and am working towards doing so.

I love the self-employed aspect coupled with the ability to work from home. I only want to have a small practice, I am not overly ambitious and am not the type to try for silk or anything like that. Ideally, I want to be able to go into chambers once every couple of weeks and complete the majority of my work from home, is this at all possible?

Could any ) barristers give me the real inside scoop? Is it as flexible as I think? Will I be able to spend time with my young family and work as a barrister?

So AIBU to ask what it's really like to work as a barrister with a family?

Thanks

Should add to my earlier post, OP, that I have a colleague who worked 4 days a week until all her children were at school, and she took silk at a relatively early age (having done the 4 day a week thing for some years before taking silk).

It's pretty patronising that so many of you are not listening to OP when she says they decided TOGETHER than her career would take the hit, rather than her DH.

Somebody's career has to take back seat if you have kids, unless you have a full time live in nanny.

If they have agreed they it will be OP, why must you assume she has been browbeaten or bullied in to it?

I thnk we are just chatting about the issuesl not being patronising and challenging that stereoptype we see all the time - penis bearer God who is male has his career put first, earns more than his wife and expects her to do most of the dross stuff at home! This chap has decided this even before the babies are born.

"so many of you are not listening to OP when she says they decided TOGETHER than her career would take the hit, rather than her DH."

She doesn't have a career. She has a degree and some mini pupilages.

She won't get one either at this rate.

This will sound harsh, but if being 'very supportive' is limited to saying supportive things, it doesn't really mean much. Actually being supportive would mean that he would commit to doing his share of the hands-on work. You are already ruling out a lot because of this, even before kids arrive.

I'm not in legal work but I have a busy professional job that I love, as does DH. We have to be able to work together on the childcare, not only during the week but at full on periods where at weekends one of us has a day alone with DC while the other works - we have split a day each doing that on really busy weekends. It would be gruelling (and unfair) to end up doing all of that yourself.

If you want to stay at home until your youngest child goes to school, then do all pick ups etc - there are very few professional jobs at all which you would be able to do well. In my experience.

I think realistically if the OP is happy looking at a career that will take a back seat (whether because of the mighty penis-bearer's job or otherwise), the Bar is not for her. It is a tough job which requires, at least initially, consideration commitment and focus. Otherwise it's a hobby, and on current fee rates, not a lucrative one.

Considerable commitment. Also good proof reading skills

Ok, whatever

I am a solicitor, and work part time. Money is rubbish, but my work life balance is very good. I was "lucky" in that I managed to get established in a small high street firm many years before I had a family, so relatively easy to go part time.

I have friends who are barristers - one manages to work term time only, but frequently needs to work away from home during the week.

In your position, I would go for it now, and decide about the family/work life balance when it becomes an issue.

Interesting discussion! I'm a mid level associate and have a very flexible part time arrangement with a large city law firm. It works very well for me and it is proof that it can work in a large city practice. But you have to ask and push for it in my experience, no one is going to offer it to you on a plate.

I have no inclination to become a partner or even a more senior associate so it works for me, but I've no doubt that if those were things you aspire to, then going part time would seriously hamper your chances. I've missed out on working on certain transactions because the demands of the client required an associate who could be on call 24/7 and able to pick things up all days of the week, in the evenings etc and I've always been very clear that I'm not able to do that. Certain people avoid working with me as they see me as being an inconvenience. I don't care but I can imagine that would bother some people.

I'm sorry to say this but I think you sound a little naive if you think you can make a career in law work as an NQ (particularly the bar) whilst doing the lions share of childcare and with a potential career break. I've not seen how old you are or whether you are planning kids soon, but in order to get any kind of flexible arrangement as a solicitor I think you'd be naive to assume you could do that as a trainee or even as a very junior associate. It takes time to establish yourself, build your client base and for partners to have faith in you to let you work flexibly. In house lawyers tend to be pretty experienced and even they often don't walk into a flexible arrangement, my friends who are in house joined full time and then went part time etc once they'd established themselves.

Law as a mother is hard. You can make it work but there are easier options out there. It also require both parents to be involved. DH is a partner in a professional services firm and far more senior and busy than me but even though I work part time he still helps me out if I need him to. It's good to go into it with your eyes open and armed with the facts, which I hope this thread has helped you to do!

By all means become a barrister, do it for a few years then give it up entirely when the kids are small. Nothing wrong in that if it's what you want. Although, being a barrister is so competitive and often takes so many years to get pupillage that I don't think many people succeed at it unless they want to do it more desperately than you seem to. If you don't feel you're overly ambitious (nowt wrong with that) you're probably not going to come back for 2nd and 3rd goes at pupillage interviews, which people often do before starting now.

But if you do become a barrister then a SAHP, I'd do so on the assumption that you won't be going back to it. Would be incredibly difficult to get back in. You'd effectively be starting from scratch again, with all the limitations of being a parent and none of the flexibility you had first time round.

That's not to say no career in law is possible under those conditions. I'm a solicitor and although DH and I split childcare responsibilities more evenly than you intend to, I could have paired it with being predominantly responsible for childcare. It would have been a possibility. But I don't think you'd do it without having a decent reputation and/or being in a very niche area, and tbh it will affect your trajectory and of course earnings. And I don't just mean that you'll only get 60% of the gross pay if you work 3 days a week- you will be ruling yourself out of a lot of stuff. Plus you'd either need a support network locally or a partner who will do at least some of the emergency childcare.

With all this said, I was quite junior when I had my first, wasn't long qualified, and all worked out fine. But as I said, shortage specialism plus demonstrably safe pair of hands (referees, place I'd trained).

To all those saying you can't make partner if you work part time - at the niche firm I trained at you must certainly could! Most of the women partners had made it despite doing a 4 day week. So stop believing that it is "impossible" and realise that should be is perfectly possible and it is just men putting barriers in your way. Your firms need to answer some tough questions. If you are producing high quality work, have a strong client following etc etc, then why on earth should it matter whether that 5th day is spent in the office? (For eg). I don't know why everyone is so resigned to this situation!
(It is an incredibly highly regarded firm)

Hi I was a criminal defence solicitor for years and I don't think it was that compatible with having children particularly the call outs to the police station at all hours. I was self employed which I liked but was always worried about where the next work was coming from.
I think one of the hardest things at the bar is the last minute work, maybe less of an issue in civil sets but still an issue. You do have to cancel plans and accept that your weekends are never your own. However you could try and if it doesn't work that isn't the end of the world. I joined the government legal service and have not been bored once. It is incredibly flexible (working from home, finishing to pick up the children, 4 days a week) and the work is fascinating including working on Bills. Good luck.

Having come back to the thread it does seems very bizarre that you are making decisions about a career that you don't yet have based on children that don't yet exist.

Follow the career path that gives you the most satisfaction. If you have children then make the decision then. You might love what you do, DP might not love what he does then, you might earn more than him etc etc. All these things can change but to choose your work based on the fact that you've already made the decision that you'll do the childcare is crazy.

You can make partner at even the biggest law firms working part-time. My DH's ultimate boss works 3 days a week as a professional support lawyer and is a partner at a big city/international firm. I concede that they are in the minority though and no doubt she is salaried, not part of the equity structure - but hardly underpaid or without influence.

I suspect with Brexit there will be lots of opportunities in the Government Legal Service, I'd be looking there. Not massive pay but good work-life balance and very interesting work.

Fairweather - I doubt she was promoted to partner as a PSL. Can only speak from my experience but the vast majority of PSL roles are filled by people wanting to move away from fee earning / full time roles. She perhaps made partner, then went down to part time hours and took on the PSL role.

Any agreement you reach with your DP about hypothetical parenting / work arrangements isn't binding: you don't know how you will feel or how your relationship will be.

Unless you're already in your 30s it seems odd to make work decisions around potential family plans.

I would personally never want to be financially dependent on a partner. DH enjoys his job way more than I do but has made work compromises too since becoming a parent (eg moving to a job with no travel). I wanted to stay in well paid work.

Although you could just take work on days you are free I suppose. I've a trial in May and when I find counsel I will be saying who have you got who is free on XYZ set day.

Yes come and join us at the government legal department. I'm a solicitor of thirteen years PQE working in immigration litigation. I work four days, and am paid 55k - 62k full time equivalent. I've had two chunks of maternity leave, paid in full for six months. Work at home a day a week and would do two if I wasn't four days. I tend to work broadly nine to five. I am brutally efficient and very careful to use my time well so I can get out when I need to.

We have pupils and trainees and barristers do their own advocacy as do solicitors who pursue higher rights. It's entirely possible to progress and have a family. I was promoted while on maternity leave. I'm not pursuing further progression while my children are young but will do so in a few years.

I can't recommend it enough.

babybarrister that was me. I work primarily in employment law. If I do the preliminary hearing for my trials, I ask the Tribunal if they are willing not to sit on Fridays. Obviously I check with the client first. The judges usually agree although sometimes it's not feasible with very long trials (ie several weeks). My colleague who took silk a couple of years ago did the same. Employment tribunals are probably ahead of the game on this as they deal witg equality law all the time, but I hope this is something that other courts will start to embrace where possible.

When I'm not listing the case myself and work comes in for me, or for chambers generally, over a Friday I generally do turn it down. If a case I was already involved with had a listing on a Friday I would do it as I can usually get cover. I deliberately don't have regular childcare for Fridays as I knew that was the only way I'd make sure I kept them free.

It was really important to me to have that extra day with the children. I appreciate not everyone feels the same way but I hope that if enough of us keep pushing the law will start to become a more flexible career for those who do.

Wow welshwabbit, I can't imagine asking a criminal court to rise 5mins early for childcare reasons, let alone not sit for an entire day!

Catsize I can see with crime it's trickier as people are actually banged up! But some flexibility with the day shouldn't be impossible. I think it's partly just a question of getting people to think about their assumptions. In employment cases you often have employers who will say it's impossible to do flexible working or jobshares in their professional, when others seem to have managed it. It's true that there are some jobs where it is very difficult but I think they're in a minority. It is not particularly nice being the "guinea pig" in this situation but as I said, ultimately it was important to me to spend a bit more time with my kids and I was willing to make career sacrifices to achieve that. Not everyone wants to do that and there's no right answer here. I hope more men will start demanding flexibility too!