Call the Midwife - FGM

[Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN]

At first I thought the programe makers were doing a good job at highlighting how wrong this practice is, and yet at the last moment, they normalized it by making out it's tradition.
I felt they missed a good opportunity to get through to the right people.

The programme makers can try and dress it up however they want - trying to make out it's tradition and it's the women that facilitate it.
Women may carry it out, but
It's men who are behind it.

It's heartbreaking to think that even in this day and age, little girls are still being butchered and disfigured by these barbaric animals.

In this I dont think men are as bad, most who do FGM (in my previous line of work, I had dealt with a few referrals) most men in this community would have been virgins, and had not seen a vagina, the few had dealings with the woman said it was cultural, a tradition that they had grown up with, men didnt really have a say.

I dont think men dont have a say, in a minority of cases, however I do think they are a monority.

My Papa had few traditions, however my Gran had lots and they had to be adhered to.

I do hate on time on here (not this thread) that it must be the males causing the issues, even in 2017, men aren't remotely as barbaric as they where 50/100 years ago, yes its history, but modern day world changes and the vast majority of our makes are educated.

Yes many things have been done to women to calm our hysteria and moods including genital mutilation, rape and labotomies

Too true.
Luckily, times have moved on, that's why FGM is so shocking. You would not think we had evolved beyond such a barbaric practice.

That the mother has had FGM is recorded in the Child Health Development Record. Women who have undergone FGM are informed in pregnancy that it is a) illegal to perform and b) that if deinfibulation is required for childbirth she cannot be reinfibulated. When the baby is born, if female, parents are again informed that FGM is illegal. The GP is aware of the mother's status. A routine referral to social services is a pointless exercise (many parents are adamant that their daughters will not undergo FGM), but if the unborn child, or any related child, is considered to be at risk of FGM, then a report must be made to children’s social care or the police.

So many women are ready to break the chain. To be the woman who stops FGM in their family. They are ready partly because they have specialist FGM clinics and services. It helps them articulate their pain - physical and emotional. It helps them feel that they have a real support community and structure to not accept this for their daughters and nieces. Community clinics make such a huge difference to so many women's and girls' lives. It can save a lifetime of heartache and gynaecological problems for the next generation. Unfortunately, clinics are under threat from funding cuts - Acton's FGM Community Clinic will have to close after March

www.change.org/p/save-the-acton-fgm-community-clinic?recruiter=9747609&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

It is against the law in this country isn't it? There might not have been many (any?) prosecutions but it's still against the law.

Yes, against the law. I believe that there haven't as yet been any prosecution. But that may well be because it tends to be done out of the country. Also, the girls who ate having it done are too young or too shy to say anything about it and the parents of the girl have actively sought out someone to do it or have taken her out of the country.

FGM against the law here.
Expectant mothers who have had it done to them when they were younger and those deemed to be higher risk have a safeguarding form filled in.

Last time I checked it was 0 hef but that was a couple of years ago

85 cases found in Tower Hamlets

But there has never been a successful prosecution. Appalling.

So many women are ready to break the chain. To be the woman who stops FGM in their family. They are ready partly because they have specialist FGM clinics and services. It helps them articulate their pain - physical and emotional. It helps them feel that they have a real support community and structure to not accept this for their daughters and nieces. Community clinics make such a huge difference to so many women's and girls' lives. It can save a lifetime of heartache and gynaecological problems for the next generation. Unfortunately, clinics are under threat from funding cuts - Acton's FGM Community Clinic will have to close after March

That is heartnening news that the women are waking up and wanting to do something for the next generation.
Heartbreaking about the cuts though.

It's a step....mandatory reporting came in a few years back, in 2003 they added failing to protect a child from fgm, which was useful. But it's horribly hard to assess the true risk and once it's done it's too late. I'm not sure there have been any successful prosecutions in uk.
The protection orders are useful in that the child, cyps or a 3rd party with permission can apply.

A mother who had been a victim of FGM discovered during pregnancy would be referred to SS, yes, to protect her daughters. They would try and re-educate her.

SA is not an FGM area. It would have been inappropriate to have this storyline in the SA episode! Male circumcision is a different practice altogether, and comparison is not helpful. I know male circumcision is controversial as well, but it's not related to FGM, the root causes of the practice are different, and bringing it up means that often a conversation about a women's issue gets taken over by people wanting to talk about men. Which gets old. Men men men. Now, back to women.

It is carried out by women. Reputedly, the men aren't that big on having to cut open their wives on their wedding night, or never being able to have sex satisfactorily, actually, for the majority. But an uncut woman would never get a prospective MIL to agree to a marriage. It's a practice run by women. I know it's rare in our patriarchal world that women can come up with something abhorrent all on their own, but sadly they can.

As for removing a girl who has been mutilated from her family, what good will that do? Child removal is not used as some sort of punishment in this country. Once the child is mutilated, they are mutilated. Removing them from their family, everything they've known, will cause more trauma, on top of the trauma of FGM. Why would you make these girls suffer more by removal? If a girl says she has been cut, then SS will of course try and get involved to ensure she gets medical help, and to protect any other girls in the family, and to re-educate the family.

FGM describes a wide range of practice. The full infibulation is relatively rare. Sometimes it's a symbolic cut, or partial 'sewing up'. Different areas have different practices.

I think CTM did well. Not inappropriately putting today's values on the 1960s, yet showing everyone's horror. Also mentioning that it's a geographically small area,and not a religious thing.

But there has never been a successful prosecution. Appalling.

Why is that?
Why no prosecutions?
I imagine families are hauled over the courts for far less.
Why is FGM swept under the carpet?

I think it's good drama brings the horror of it to people's attention. I knew about it broadly but prefer not to think about the details of desperate and unpleasant things and drama can help to expose the full horror.

I'm not sure there have been any successful prosecutions in uk.

That doesn't make sense.
If it's so widespread like we are led to believe.
Why no prosecutions? It's disgraceful.

Hi Little pig

FGM is definitely against the law in this country. However it is a law that is incredibly difficult to enforce and there have been no successful prosecutions.
There is a lot more awareness in recent years and training for professionals to help identify at risk girls. Social services would intervene to stop a family taking their daughter away to be cut. However it is hard to identify girls who have had it done as obviously you would not be able to tell from the outside.

I think the show handled it well - the younger girl going off to be cut underlines that the authorities didn't (and maybe to some extent still don't) understand how pervasive this practice is, who is behind it and how it is perpetuated.

As for removing a girl who has been mutilated from her family, what good will that do? Child removal is not used as some sort of punishment in this country. Once the child is mutilated, they are mutilated. Removing them from their family, everything they've known, will cause more trauma, on top of the trauma of FGM. Why would you make these girls suffer more by removal?

If a parent purposefully broke their child's arm, you would remove the child from the family and rightly so.
You wouldn't say ''well the damage has already been done, what good will it do to remove the child''.

No wonder there are never any prosecutions with attitudes like this

A way to ensure prosecutions could be to enforce compulsory gential examinations on all girls and young women travelling to at risk countries. If we documented they left with an intact vulva, and then they returned with a mutilated one, we could prosecute the mum/aunt whoever who took them!

But, yeah, that's a terrible idea.

Or, we could let young, scared girls know that if they tell us they're going to have it done, their mum or gran will be put in prison!

Also a fucking terrible idea.

It has to be about the care of the girls involved and at risk.

You would remove the child because the risk that the parent would hurt them AGAIN is so high- not as a punishment for previous hurt.

FGM is different to other abuse in that it is generally a single barbaric act and not a catalogue of continuing assaults.

There have been prosecutions, but no convictions. The evidence hasn't been there to support the charge. It remains a secretive practice and girls are often taken at the start of school holidays so they have healed to a degree when they go back to school. At least, they are able to sit without showing signs of discomfort or injury. It's stomach churningly abhorrent.

Why no prosecutions? It's disgraceful.

Because the family actively seek it out and want it to happen.
Because it happens outside the UK.
Because the communities can be very secretive and keep the person doing it safe.

Correct, Needs- there's been one attempt, that was brought against a doctor, but it wasn't successful.

It's now also an offence to aid and abet in taking someone abroad to be cut (including financing it) and to bring a cutter to the UK. FMPO's, that a PP alluded to, have seen more use.

And yes what rugby said about the priority being the girls and their ongoing needs.

If a parent purposefully broke their child's arm, you would remove the child from the family and rightly so.
You wouldn't say ''well the damage has already been done, what good will it do to remove the child''.

If a parent broke an arm then a child would be removed because of the risk they would do the same, or worse, again.

With FGM, the mum may well firmly believe she is ensuring her daughter gets the best life she can. A girl isn't going to be at risk of further harm by staying with her mum post FGM.

Child removal in this country is not a punishment for parents. It's to keep children safe from future harm.

FGM is different to other abuse in that it is generally a single barbaric act and not a catalogue of continuing assaults.

I see what you mean.
Still, it seems like a loop hole of sorts.

desolate it's still illegal to allow, take from uk or fail to protect a girl from fgm regardless where it happened.