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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

FAKE news, LIES, fake lies. We need the Trump Oracle.

999 replies

Lweji · 26/02/2017 13:23

A new thread. From
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2862265-Were-only-showing-Ami-the-good-news-now-to-keep-her-sweet-Its-another-Trump-thread?watched=1&msgid=67235918#67235918

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
Dumdedumdedum · 02/03/2017 07:58

Thank you for the info, Across.

: But our day to day lives ARE affected by it, it affects the future of all our children.

woman12345 · 02/03/2017 07:59

I could easily have got the reference wrong, but as an idea I think there's a point.

BiglyBadgers · 02/03/2017 08:05

They have mentioned the Sessions Russia meetings a few times on radio 4 this morning. Apparently none of the other people on the committee he was on at the time felt the need to meet the Russian ambassador. They do make it sound really rather dodgy.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out and whether he gets forced to resign.

BiglyBadgers · 02/03/2017 08:17

I think internet has done this

The internet it not a good or bad thing. It is not the cause of all ills and it is not the saviour of the world. I sometimes think that people blame the internet because it is easy. It is this big, incomprehensible thing that has undoubtedly changed the way we view ourselves and the world. However I think the bad is balanced by the good. The internet may have played a part in spreading the ideas that brought trump to power, but it is also spreading the ideas that will bring him down ( hey, look at us on the internet sharing information and ideas). Blame specific websites, blame groups on the internet, but to blame 'the internet' is like saying it is all the fault of the printing press.

I also think the idea that in the past people would not have stood for this is undermined by the fact that there has clearly been rather a lot of dictators rising to power before the internet existed. America isn't this special place that is immune to the rise of fascism. The 'it could never happen here' fallacy is a dillusion that stops people standing up. They assume it can't be happening and that someone else will sort it out.

AcrossthePond55 · 02/03/2017 08:30

I can only look over my own lifetime, Bigly . There was no internet during the Viet Nam and Civil Rights years and protests were organized and carried out. Word of mouth, newspapers, and telephones may have meant that it took longer to organize them, but they still happened. And massive changes happened, too. Watergate happened before the internet, and the resulting information and public outcry brought down a President.

What was the common denominator? A free and uncensored press. There were no cries back then of 'Fake News' and 'the Lying Media'. If the newspaper printed it, if it was on the 5 o'clock news, people believed it, or believed it enough to do their own research. And the politicians may have tried to weasel or spin their way out, but they didn't call the press liars or try to bring the wrath of the public down on them. But because they do that now, I'm glad we do have the internet because it can all be found there, in all its glory. IF we can just get rid of the apathy, the 'us vs them' that the GOP has instilled, and the 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude so many people have. We need the bellies full of anger of the Viet Nam era, the righteous indignation of the Civil rights era, even the fearful anger of the Cold War era. I just don't know what it will take to do that.

Dum, but many don't feel they are being affected by it. They have roofs over their heads, paychecks coming in, food in their bellies, and their children sleep safe at night. And they don't really give a damn if anyone else has those things. In fact, some of them think that certain 'others' probably shouldn't or that those 'others' are going to take 'theirs'.

But it's midnight here, and I'm exhausted. Hopefully when I get up I'll be able to have a little more faith in mankind than I do now. Except you Vipers. I have extreeeemmee faith in you. G'night.

CussingQuim · 02/03/2017 08:40

Hope you get some sleep Across Flowers

helzapoppin2 · 02/03/2017 08:44

Across the pond, you have to be talking about Gavin Newsom. I saw him interviewed a few years ago when I was living in the US and thought how intelligent he was! I thought then he'd go far! We don't hear a great deal of him in the U.K, but he's definitely one to watch! The opposite of Trump!

cozietoesie · 02/03/2017 09:10

Goodness, Bagel. I wasn't meaning to be aggressively defensive or anything. Just gloomily saying that I tried to be honest about my thoughts - although I hope very much that I'm wrong on this occasion. I really do.

It's so hard when we reach this point.

Dumdedumdedum · 02/03/2017 09:37

Umm, are we a tiny bit hopeful about this?
House Intelligence Panel to Probe Trump's Ties to Russia

TheClaws · 02/03/2017 09:43

The internet is being used by all sides as a weapon and a shield. I believe we would be much worse off without the ability to share and store information at will. We simply need to keep our wits about us re: the veracity of the information and always be aware the internet is an open book. Someone is forever watching and recording.

PausingFlatly · 02/03/2017 09:43

Tiny bit, Dum. Have to keep hoping.

BiglyBadgers · 02/03/2017 09:55

The guardian has an article on the Dutch elections on the 15 March. We may need to expand this thread to cover crazy far right governments in Europe as well Confused

Here is a quote on why this election matters:

"The Netherlands holds parliamentary elections on 15 March. Polls have long predicted that the anti-Islam, anti-EU Geert Wilders’ populist Party for Freedom (PVV) could emerge as the country’s largest party, although Wilders is thought unlikely to enter government.

After Britain’s EU referendum and the election of Donald Trump in the US (read more on the connections between the two here and here), a PVV victory could be seen as fitting a developing narrative of nativist, anti-establishment movements on the rise.

The probable strong showing by the far-right Front National leader, Marine Le Pen, in May’s French presidential poll reinforces this view (the Guardian’s French election coverage is here). Some observers believe the EU’s future is in play."

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/02/dutch-parliamentary-elections-everything-you-need-to-know-brexit-vote-trump-geert-wilders?CMP=share_btn_tw

BiglyBadgers · 02/03/2017 10:03

The Dutch situation seems particularly interesting because it highlights the danger of small extremest parties gaining influence, not because they are supported by the majority, but because the vote is fragmented across so many small, special interest parties that you can become the largest party with a much smaller number of votes. Even if this does not translate into Wilders actually taking power it gives him a legitimacy and importance that he would not have if the rest of the votes were concentrated across a smaller number of parties.

WorshipTheGourd · 02/03/2017 10:08

TheClaws
I agree 300% that the capacity to communicate, disseminate and store information cheaply and easily and at will is vital to us.
Re 'someone always watching and recording' - do you think anyone 'official' has any interest on what we say on here under our usernames?

BiglyBadgers
I also agree that maybe we should discuss the rise of the populist anti-establishment surge we are seeing across more than one country on these threads. I am as worried about what is happening in the UK as I am in Trumpland (more in some ways as it is more subtle and I think they are slipping things through while the world's attention is elsewhere).
There is nothing wrong with anti-establishement, but when it is an incoherent roar, and manipulated by Machiavellian forces 'behind the scenes' it becomes very scary.

WorshipTheGourd · 02/03/2017 10:14

Bigly do you think this 'fracturing' effect is also a result of t'interweb?
Although I stand by what I said re Claws' post, I do wonder if, just as we don't all sit down and watch 3 TV channels now and discuss over water-cooler next day, the fracturing of interests / news sources / ideas over 'what to do' has become less focussed? What is different now to Nixon era / era of 70's and 80's protests and marches?
(maybe nothing, I live in the arse end of nowhere so feel far removed from London marches and wish I could get to one).

That was rather a rambly, not much substance, sorry ,need coffee!!!

NotDavidTennant · 02/03/2017 10:47

I think there's a little bit of looking back with rose-tinted spectacles here. The Vietnam protest movement did not spring up over night, it took years to build and a lot of it was as much in reaction to ordinary Americans being killed as it was to people taking a principled stance against the war.

I don't think there has ever been a time when the majority of people have been willing to campaign and protest about something unless it affects them personally.

BiglyBadgers · 02/03/2017 10:48

I wouldn't say it is a result of the internet, but I do think the internet brings together people into a community that otherwise would have seen themselves as the only person who felt that way and would never have considered forming a party or voting along those lines. This works both ways. It is similar to how the printing press allowed the mass dissemination of propaganda and non-mainstream views when it was invented. The French Revolution was not a result of the printing press, but there is no doubt the printing press played a large part in the spread of revolutionary ideas.

I can only speak from my experience here as I haven't explored much of the research in this area. It seems as if people are fed up with the main political parties at the moment who have become viewed as a political elite who do not represent the people. In the UK at least there is a lack of a real and effective opposition party. Amongst the people I know, who are pretty engaged politically there is a feeling that their views have not been heard and that it doesn't make a difference which of the main parties they vote for as they are all pretty much the same. I saw this really begin after the Iraq war demonstrations were not acknowledged by the government. If all the main parties are seen as the same you start looking for smaller ones to bring change. The internet allows you access to niche groups you would not have even known existed before. This can be good as it allows new voices to emerge, it could be bad if those voices are hate filled and the results of a fractured vote could also be concerning.

woman12345 · 02/03/2017 10:49

We may need to expand this thread to cover crazy far right governments in Europe as well confused
Agree, bigly and the Russian control/links/ funding for far right stretch from Edinburgh through Amsterdam down to Nice and all around.
If US media have the balls to be following that one through, I wish it was being chased more here.
Have to say following this in internet is such an odd experience. The subjectivity / objectivity barrier is broken with world events and it does fuck with your head, which I think is their aim.
but thanks all.

CussingQuim · 02/03/2017 10:55

I do wonder if someone's got through to him about Twitter. (His "c plus" for communication comment, and the lack of tweets this week.)

BiglyBadgers · 02/03/2017 11:30

I think you are right Tennant. So far it has been a little over a month. Let's not forget the Montgomery Bus boycott lasted 381 days. These things can take time.

www.history.com/topics/black-history/montgomery-bus-boycott

WorshipTheGourd · 02/03/2017 11:37

Tennant that is interesting to know, thank you.

'A little over a month' - ruddy nora, is that ALL?
It seems like 6, at least, so yes, some cognitive dissonance going on re 'speed of international uprising'!

Destinysdaughter · 02/03/2017 11:43

Re the internet, this is interesting, 4Chan and the rise of the far right
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/28/greatest-peril-screening-reality-4chan-pewdiepie-nothing-matters-fascism

SanFranBear · 02/03/2017 13:18

That texas story about holding back health information from pregnant women is repugnant!

Deejoda · 02/03/2017 13:29

*The following bills have been filed:

HR861 Terminate the EPA
HR610 Vouchers for Public Education
HR899 Terminate the Dept of Education
HJR69 Repeal Rule Protecting Wildlife
HR370 Repeal ACA
HR354 Defund Planned Parenthood
HR785 National Right to Work (this one ends unions)
HR83 Mobilizes against Sanctuary Cities
HR147 Criminalizing Abortions (prenatal nondiscrimination act)
HR808 Sanctions Against Iran*

This reads like a would-be dictator's plans for destroying all that 'the west' holds up as an ideal and turning the world upside down.

As an aside, I think this thread should definitely chart all the western extreme right proliferation...they are all linked in ideology and will potentially change the way we live if no one opposes in an organised way.

CussingQuim · 02/03/2017 13:31

Trump tweet -

"Since November 8th, Election Day, the Stock Market has posted $3.2 trillion in GAINS and consumer confidence is at a 15 year high. Jobs!"