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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
littleladybird14 · 27/02/2017 20:03

Can i just reiterate what i mentioned in my post, ANY dog, ANY breed, ANY temperament is capable of causing harm to adult or child. The softest of dogs can turn in an instant. The advice with all dogs is to never leave child and dog alone and exercise caution at all times. All dogs are wild to some degree, they dont speak our language, they cant fully understand what is safe and acceptable.
I understand this dog has a history, as does ours but its about being sensible. Keeping baby safe is number one priority and that might mean keeping dog separated from the room you keep baby in. Shouldnt ALL dog owners adopt this approach? Attacks are usually when dogs and children and left unsupervised. Its doable and who knows the dog might just adapt like ours has. His outside personality hasnt changed and strangers at the door, window cleaners and potential burglars think hes the most feared dog, unknown to them a bit of cheese and the offer to play fetch and hes all yours!
I just think the OP should give the dog a chance. Adopt caution as EVERY dog owner should with children, more caution given your concerns. Look to rehome if you cannot keep him, im sure he would be rehomable to the right person and dog charities would take him on the basis a lot are against PTS especially if dog has never actually caused any harm.
Flowers

twinnymummy16 · 27/02/2017 20:07

Little ladybird14 couldn't say it better myself clearly! All dogs should have a degree of caution. Our baby gates are separating dogs and children

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 20:07

Oh chubby. The op is late thirties and had trouble conceiving. If she had put it off she might have forfeited a family for the sake of a dog. You would be right if she took the dog on knowing it would have continued problems, but she took it on believing that its problems could be alleviated. Despite much time, effort and cost, this hasn't proved to be the case. Should she sacrifice her chance to be a mother? Dh wasn't even around at the time. Should he sacrifice the chance to be a father?

I take my hat off to the ops dedication to a dog that even professionals say they would have given up on long ago. IMO she's a saint for that. No way should she give up her dreams of motherhood or be made to feel guilty for doing so. That is one lucky dog to have been given such a great life for 8 years. Better 8 years than not be given a chance at all as a dangerous puppy.

Please op do the right thing for your child and enjoy your child stress free. Don't be made to feel guilty by posters such as Chubby.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 20:08

Lynm63 if you bothered to read my posts you would know i have a dog that doesn't get on with other dogs. A no im not offeting to rehome the dog due to the fact i don't see why i should cause my dog any undue anxiety.
And there are plenty of people willing to take on older dogs and dogs with all sorts of problems. DOGS TRUST NEVER PUT A HEALTHY DOG DOWN FFS! so try them before making a deciaion you will regret op because 8 is not old for a dog.

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 20:11

Stunned at the number of people telling OP to end a life!
Alarming to think this cold attitude will then be passed down to next generation by these 'caring' mums.
The world is going to ruin with this heartless quick fix disposable attitude to other living things.
Terrifying.
The dog hasn't even done anything! I'll have the dog

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 20:13

Oh FFS - We are advocating this for THIS dog. This DANGEROUS dog, not for all dog owners expecting a baby. It is called being RESPONSIBLE.

Sorry for shouting.

user1487696927 · 27/02/2017 20:13

Hi I am a veterinary nurse and have worked with difficult dogs in the past. Even with dogs that have had no previous aggression be it from fear or dominance under no circumstances should they be left with a child. Children do not understand dog behaviour and will often pull their tail and get close to their face which can sometimes lead to the dog feeling threatened. If I were you whilst you are pregnant, play a voice clip of a baby crying and children playing- I'm sure you can get these on YouTube. This will accustomise him to the sounds your baby will make. If you have already purchased baby items, i.e play equipment, bouncers and carry chairs put these out so he can get used to them. If you ask your local vet they should have adaptil, you can get this in a collar, a diffuser or a spray. It is calming pheromones that will calm him. You can use this indefinitely. When introducing him make sure he is on the lead but not being held back too much as this can be counter productive, just enough that you can pull him away if necessary. you may have more control with a halti as he is a large breed. It may be advisable for him to wear a muzzle during the first few introductions just to be on the safe side. Get his claws trimmed so that they are not to sharp, you can also buy some safe claws which are rubber nails that you can glue over his exsisting nails, this would ensure that not as much damage would be done if he were to paw at your baby. Create a 'den' a place that he feels secure, fill it with his bedding, toys and kongs and get him used to it so it becomes his safe place. A large puppy crate would be ideal. Dogs can get jealous when a baby arrives so as hard as it sounds try to give him attention as well as the baby. Use treats as a reward, if he takes a step towards the baby, say good boy and give him a treat, if he sniffs the baby, say good boy and reward with a treat. This will enforce the fact that the baby is nothing to be scared about, and can actually be a positive thing with treat rewards. Please remember though that sometimes dogs can be unpredictable and if he did spontaneously go for your baby I would consider contacting a charity and if none would help I would contemplate PTS. I'm glad you gave him a home when others may not have given him a chance. If you need any help, feel free to send me a private message and I will do my best to help.
Good luck xx

BaggyCheeks · 27/02/2017 20:15

Chubby And would a dog with such obvious stress issues as this particular dog be classed as healthy? They might never put a healthy dog down, but they certainly aren't keen on taking difficult cases, and have no shortage of dogs languishing in a pen rather than a proper home.

I have to agree with BertrandRussell on every single count. Treating dogs like humans does no one any favours. It is also very unusual to say that a dog should live out it's natural life with it's owner - how many dogs are PTS based on illness which hasn't killed them yet? In those circumstances, owners are always, ALWAYS, told "better a day too soon than a day too late", and that is something that most definitely applies in this specific situation. The OP should feel no guilt, having given a dog a good, loving, 8 years it otherwise would not have had. Her feelings and those of her husband matter too - having to live in a house permanently separated along a dog/baby divide would only lead to resentment on all sides.

DUFFDADDY1 · 27/02/2017 20:17

I feel for you. But the bottom line is your DC will have to come first. People can say keep the dog in another room etc but I don't think that it's a risk that I would take. You and your DH have done a great thing and most likely saving a dog for eight years. Why don't you give him to a rescue place and possibly there might be kind like minded people like you and your DH( sorry if this has been said before)

DistanceCall · 27/02/2017 20:17

Op, you have your solution - Zebraar will have your dog. Apparently. Care to PM the OP your personal details, Zebraar?

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 20:17

I think zebraar is one of those people putting emotion above practicality and sense.
The dog "hasn't done anything" precisely because of the dedication of the op. But the op is sensible enough to know that there is a very good chance that it is capable of it and that there is quite a high risk to her child.

If you are serious about having the dog then you ought to be asking a lot more questions rather than just saying you'll have him regardless.

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2017 20:20

"DOGS TRUST NEVER PUT A HEALTHY DOG DOWN FFS"

A deeply misguided policy.

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 20:20

Don't be ridiculous Zebraar, the human world has ALWAYS treated animals with a 'heartless quick fix disposable attitude'. What is new is the level of sentimentality about pets - I can't believe at any other time in history you would have heard so many people arguing that a dog is an equal family member to a child.

Nobody on this thread has advocated disposing of 'inconvenient' dogs, but in this particular case, it would be a kindness TO THE DOG to let him sleep now.

totolouise · 27/02/2017 20:21

I'm really sad to read your post and that you are considering putting down your dog (who although may be difficult) has been a part of your life for 8 long years now. I too rescued a dog (a bull terrier cross) about 3 and a half years ago, and he too had his issues, plenty of them. I bought his pet insurance under the premise of I didn't know if he was going to fight with other dogs in the park, and I didn't let him off his lead for a long time until I knew we had an understanding, and I could trust him somewhat. I now have a 15 month old little girl and he absolutely adores her. My friend looked after him for a week whilst I stayed in hospital after the birth but as soon as she brought him home to us he came in the front door, saw me holding my little girl on the sofa, licked her face and then just went and laid in his bed. Something must have happened to him in one of his previous homes in relation to his tail as no one not even me is allowed to touch it for any length of time. Yet he allows my daughter to pull it and totter around behind him holding onto it. Keep the faith, I think your dog will surprise you. My dog used to lay with his head on my belly-he knew my little girl was inside there and didn't even move when she kicked him! He was at my side when my waters broke and would not leave me-he knew exactly what was going on. I hope you use the positiveness of your baby to bring you all closer together. Good luck x

WillandNatesmum · 27/02/2017 20:21

I was in a similar situation but not quite so 'severe' I had an 11 year old dog who had been abused and she growled if children went near her. I rescued her from a family where the children used to tease her with food. She was 18 months old when I got her, I was her fourth home and she was petrified of men as she had been badly beaten. I had her for 9.5 years people asked if I was going to get rid of her as I was pregnant. I had her brother too, but had him from a young pup (same litter) he was soft as a bun. She was small lab sized so no where near as big as your dog and not aggressive towards other dogs but very protective over me. I kept her and her brother, we bought a babydan pen which could be made into a large pen or a 'wall' shut doors behind us to keep her away from our son if he was sleeping and never left her in the same room as him. When I nursed him she sat in my feet, when he slept in the bedroom with the door shut she slept outside the door, when he woke she would come charging down to 'tell me' but grunting and bouncing up and down until I went to him. She walked quietly alongside the pram but did 'growse' at other dogs then if they came to close but was strangely happy to let people look at ' her baby'. I would never have trusted her but she never really gave me any reason to worry. As I said she is much smaller and older than your dog. She sadly had to be put to sleep due to chronic arthritis at 13 - just as my son was started to charge about, I think the timing was right I was getting very concerned he would knock her and she would go for him if he hurt her, but it never came to that. A dog behaviourist told me after we had lost her she had obviously accepted the baby as her 'pack'. It was a risk, but for us it paid off. I am so sorry you are having to make this decision. We were worried, but got lucky, you have to go with your gut feeling. Mine was to give it a go, but with the size of our dog she could be restrained and kept behind gates and play pens, if yours is large that may not be possible. Whatever decision you make it will be the best for the dog as it is obvious you love him xx

Mustang27 · 27/02/2017 20:22

Oh god op this was me two years ago. Honestly word for word, fear aggressive dog, sicknesses, uninterested family. Has he had the same vet through out the years? I'd reccomend you speak to them. I was very lucky with my vet an they understood my predicament entirely and my pregnancy seemed to unnerve my dog even further that I ended up having to cage her to keep her separate from anybody but me. It was a disaster. My vet said it was completely my decision but no matter how much animals matter the life and safety of your baby becomes your focussed they recommended I put her to sleep (vet has made the same decision with their old dog when starting a family due to aggression). I ride it out, as soon as I had the baby she was like a second mumma I never let her to close and always did it when there was someone else their with my baby as I could only trust my reflexes if she turns and she turns quick!! 20 months on she is great. They all have teeth and I'd never trust a dog with any child. But I'm glad I didn't jump the gun but I honestly as a first time mum in the same situation I would not have felt guilty looking at my wee one if I'd made the hard decision as honestly its not worth the risk. Pm if you want I'm not sure how that works but I'd happily be an understanding ear

Jayfee · 27/02/2017 20:22

on the subject of gates, my baby was bitten at about 14 months when she pulled herself up on the gate and the standard poodle bit her face

Geneswoman · 27/02/2017 20:24

Hi OP I've not read all the posts as I wanted to give my own honest opinion and experience first. I was in your exact position ten years ago. My dog was not rescue but definitely aggressive to other dogs and barked and jumped up at visitors. To be fair not many people liked her and also asked us what we were going to do with her when DC1 came along. She was two so slightly different in terms of re-homing options. It worried me a lot as birth approached and as my lovely SIL offered to have her kind of as a foster option we kind of delayed making a decision. I remember on a beach walk with her days before I gave birth and she had a go at a fellow dog walkers dog and I was in despair but that man was lovely and gave me his view on her and it was this; 'the new baby will be part of your pack and she will love and protect him and everything will be fine.' He had had a similar experience with his previous dog. I thought he was being kind and not wanting to upset a heavily pregnant woman even more. But with my SIL offer at the back of my mind we introduced new baby to the dog and my beach friend turned out to be right. I don't want to influence your decision OP as I felt exactly like you do and all dogs are different and it is easy to say ten years down the line. I watched DC1 and DC2 like a hawk especially in the early days. But it was clear she thought of herself as a second mother and it all worked out fine even when as toddlers they didn't always behave perfectly around her. Just wanted to give you another perspective. Whatever decision you make OP it will be the right one for you, as each situation is different. Congratulations on your pregnancy and best wishes.

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 27/02/2017 20:24

He lunges unpredictably
You need two hands to cling onto his lead during walks
They have had to hire a field to let him off lead safely
This is not like giving your goldfish away because you can't be bothered

This dog had a very shitty start in life and that damage can't be fully undone
The OP and her husband want to give their child the best possible start and constant hypervigilance and anxiety and barely seeing Daddy as he is downstairs with the dog in the divided house is not a great start for their baby's long term emotional health

Lynnm63 · 27/02/2017 20:24

No one is saying euthanise a dog because you're pregnant, or it doesn't go with your curtains. I initially came of to say the op was being unreasonable assuming this was her dilemma. It isn't though.This is a dog who was so badly treated as a puppy it has severe behavioural problems whose litter mate was euthanised at 8 months old when she took on her dog.
However, the dog would have been given up on years ago by a lot of us, even professionals. The dog doesn't like being outside in a kennel so realistically will it thrive away from its home kept in a rescue for a few years or being euthanised by the police if it attacks. Would it even be fair to turn the dogs like upside down as a newborn is a whole lot of work. There is no ideal solution here whatever the op decides there will be what ifs. The best she can hope for is the least shitty option she can live with.
I have a dog I love to bits but I love my 3 dc more.

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2017 20:25

"The dog hasn't even done anything! I'll have the dog"

There you go, OP .The solution.

Mustang27 · 27/02/2017 20:25

God check the typos in that sorry I am doing bedtime routine not the best multitasker. I really hope your hyperemisis passes quickly x

jocarter67 · 27/02/2017 20:28

My Ds and DIL have a staffy that they rescued several years ago. He had been very very badly treated. When DIL fell pregnant with DG I was absolutely petrified of them keeping the dog, it genuinely gave me nights when I couldn't sleep through worry. Anyhow to cut a long story short, they were advised to start putting baby bits like the Moses basket and baby clothes around the house, The day DGS was born my Ds took the towel that dgs had been wrapped in and introduced the scent to the dog. This was repeated with several other items over a couple of days. When Dgs was brought home, he was fed with the dog present, then was in the Moses basket in the living room where the dog was , I need to point out that at no time EVER from day one until almost 3years old has the dog and the child been left in the room unattended, not even for 1 second, and neither would they ever be left alone. This has worked fantastically for them.

I am not in any way saying that this is going to work for anyone else, and neither am I suggesting that you try, I am purely telling you what happened in our situation

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 20:29

I think your dog will surprise you. What an entirely irresponsible thing to say, on the basis of no evidence or insight whatsoever.

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 20:29

For every positive story that had a happy ending when owners took a risk, there are stories that didn't have such a happy ending.

You might be lucky op, then again you might not...

Personally, given the very sad history of your dog, it's a risk that I wouldn't take for an innocent child that could potentially have its life ruined, at best by scars, at worst by death.

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