Banning golliwogs?

[Dreamgal]

After watching a C4 programme on "PC gone mad" last night, I spotted a link to a Facebook video - see link below which gives 3 key reasons. Not sure how I feel about actually banning golliwogs (as that's censorship), but they do seem to bring out the worst in some factions of our society.

www.facebook.com/Gollytots/videos/1598189463544441

If you watched Trevor Phillips there is an important message........

Banning things leads to Trump getting elected.

Indeed one of the last comments in his presentation was "unless you think that Trump is a good thing, we (liberal left wing elite) need to change.

The underlying message I advocate is to not ban Gollywogs but instead encourage people to not buy them. And by that I mean to not label everyone who buys one as a racist. Rather to educate people about the cultural history and let them draw their own conclusion. Educate people (including me) that remember these from childhood, there is an underlying cultural issue that is actually very distastful.

And FWIW, I remember them as a small child. I saved the paper tokens. At that time I did not know any of the cultural issues and thought that they could not represent a black person because black people didn't look look that.

Ok, StrawberryShortcake, that makes sense.

I also feel the need to add that I still have mine, but it's in a storage container in the garage along with all of my other favourite childhood things. My children do not have golliwog dolls, nor would I be inclined to get them one. However, I don't think banning them does anything positive. You can teach your children about them/their history, and why they're not a positive thing, without banning them. Bans are rarely effective at achieving anything.

Itsnoteasy; I am also not in favour of banning things.
There is no defence for gollies, but I couldn't support a legal ban on them anymore than I could support the destruction of works of art or the burning of books.

If we cannot negotiate these things by communication, debate, using our free expression to challenge? where actually is our liberalism?

Can anyone say who suggested banning golliwogs?

Great, SuperBeagle has changed her mind as well. From:

I don't see a problem with them. I loved mine when I was a little girl

To

My children do not have golliwog dolls, nor would I be inclined to get them one

I'm happy to see this

Soul Account..
thank you

You can teach your children about them/their history, and why they're not a positive thing, without banning them. Bans are rarely effective at achieving anything

ok, so if you explain to child that they're negative and racist, wouldn't the natural question be: "why can we still buy them?"

ok, so if you explain to child that they're negative and racist, wouldn't the natural question be: "why can we still buy them?"

Not necessarily. There are lots of things you can buy which are negative.

This thread will go down the same track as the dozens of others over the years with posters largely belonging to two groups:

1. Those who, irrespective of their own colour or background, have looked into the history surrounding the doll, recognise that there is nothing positive about its creation and try to share this knowledge with others, or
2. Those, irrespective of colour or background, who collected jam jar lids when they were younger / have non-offended Black friends / wore golly apparel / see no particular issue but are unwilling to accept that there is something inherently wrong about the doll despite the information being shared.

Although many people will have harmless fond memories of their golly, those memories unfortunately can't change its history.

My mother collected the robinsons coupons while she was pregnant with me (back in the 60s). She collected enough for about a dozen golly models. Mum then died when I was 1yo. The gollies are one of the very few things left of her. I have no photos, momentoes, memories of my mum.

I know the gollies are racist. I've always known it. I'm ashamed of them, but can't bring myself to bin them. They are precious to me, but tucked away in a box. I feel shame and conflicted every time I think of them.

I hope none of my friends ever discover I have them and come to the conclusion that I am a racist. But if it came to it, I think I'd rather be (wrongly) labelled a racist than to destroy one of the very last links I have to my mother.

I know this makes me a bad person. I feel a whole lot of guilt but I just can't get rid of them.

It doesn't make you a bad person Gizelda, you aren't parading them around and refusing to believe that they are racist. You are one of the few people with a very good reason to keep them.

StrawberryShortcake, If I misunderstood I apologise. I also appreciate you coming back and explaining things more clearly.

"ok, so if you explain to child that they're negative and racist, wouldn't the natural question be: "why can we still buy them?""
Easily answered with-

"Because some people are racists"

Some people just don't know they have negative connotations though bert.
I was hugely surprised when I found out the history behind them. the education on cultural / political issues is largely dependent on your parents as children so I don't think you can blame people for not knowing, anymore than you can blame people for not understanding the difference between a waltz and a quickstep.

So no updates on who here called for a banning? Alright, pro gollywoggers, can you explain why you turned the conversation to who wants to ban stuff based on no talk of banning? Was it a cunning diversion? Or just your assumption?

"Some people just don't know they have negative connotations though"

What, even after it has been explained to them? I am sort of prepared to believe a person in 2017 not realizing that a fuzzy haired, thick lipped rolling eyed caricature of a black person is racist, but still not thinking it's racist after reading about the background requires a special sort of Hopkinsgoggles.............

but still not thinking it's racist after reading about the background requires a special sort of Hopkinsgoggles.............

What background? Which version?

Please, please RTFT anyone in doubt of their racist beginnings. MrsDusty the question of banning came from the OP, the name of the thread is "banning golliwogs?" which came from a facebook video calling for them to be banned/the manufacture of them to be banned - not sure still if the person making the video intended for existing gollys to be thrown out or what, but seemed mainly focused on stopping further manufacture.

OurBlanche other PP and I have explained the background repeatedly up thread. There aren't 'versions'. It just is.

The very fact that the apologists now call them "gollys" shows dome sort of awareness.........

Sorry that was a bit short...

There is a timeline to golliwogs that is interesting in itself. Patronising? Probably. Racist, latterly so, most definitely.

But they were 'invented' for much the same reasons as rag dolls were, back in the 1870s. Toys that had tales told about them!

Society has changed. The golliwog has grown in repute, he now stands for something his originator coudn't have foreseen... after all, her patronising view was that he was "a horrid sight, the blackest gnome" - so not human, perhaps! But he turned out to be a really jolly, helpful chap.

Which is, of course, how the slave trade used and abused black people!

BUT... I too would not like to see him banned. As others have said, banning him would make him a cause celebre, a rallying cry that would muddy so many waters. Talk about the casual racism in his invention, the hidden, unintentional, unthinking racism in his having been a much loved toy for so long. Educate not separate!

Sorry mygorgeous I did explain in my longer post. Originally I pressed Post when trying to scroll down!

bert unless children /adults are exposed to conversations about subjects they won't know. That's perhaps why they are on sale, not because the shopkeeper or purchaser is inherently racist.
A conversation here, or there may change attitudes, but it won't do it straight away.
And yes people don't even in 2017 have a wide knowledge about the world they live in. Only a couple of months a ago I met someone who had never been outside of her town in which she was born. She was in her thirties.

We really must stop calling them gollys, though.