Banning golliwogs?

[Dreamgal]

After watching a C4 programme on "PC gone mad" last night, I spotted a link to a Facebook video - see link below which gives 3 key reasons. Not sure how I feel about actually banning golliwogs (as that's censorship), but they do seem to bring out the worst in some factions of our society.

www.facebook.com/Gollytots/videos/1598189463544441

Wow, I'm genuinely amazed that there are people still selling them

I also want to point out that this thread will never go anywhere. All race related threads on MN inevitably descend into a chorus of voices saying "nah, that's not racist, you're just being over sensitive".

My dad is black, and none of my family finds them offensive I'm more offended that other people are offended on our behalf.

Should they be banned? Probably not, OP. It's probably pointless. Racist people who want a golliwog will probably acquire one somehow. Racists are gonna racist
Agreed with this ^

Wanting a golliwog and thinking it's ok to have one/sell them in your shop is probably a symptom of a bigger problem bad taste for one which needs to be addressed.

Jim Crow Laws: It shall be unlawful for a negro and white person to play together or in company with each other in any game of cards or dice, dominoes or checkers.”
—Birmingham, Alabama, 1930

“Marriages are void when one party is a white person and the other is possessed of one-eighth or more negro, Japanese, or Chinese blood.”
—Nebraska, 1911

“Separate free schools shall be established for the education of children of African descent; and it shall be unlawful for any colored child to attend any white school, or any white child to attend a colored school.”
—Missouri, 1929

“All railroads carrying passengers in the state (other than street railroads) shall provide equal but separate accommodations for the white and colored races, by providing two or more passenger cars for each passenger train, or by dividing the cars by a partition, so as to secure separate accommodations.”
—Tennessee, 1891

There are more.

Gollywogs aren't racist, people are racist. People are so worried about offending. A as long as there is no racist intent what's the issue?
Perhaps you feel the same about calling someone a nigger, a spaz, a Paki? No, well grow up then.

I think Politically Correct people are just the "curtain twitchers" of old on a new 'moral' campaign. The fact that they want to police people's thoughts and the most trivial nonsense, always proves to me they have never had a serious issue to think about in their whole life.

I think Politically Correct people are people who have bothered to get off their arses and fight for the rights of others. They also have the intellectual capacity to empathise, to comprehend what is wrong and the verbal ability to call it out when they see it.

Golliwogs are a symbol of racism, they always have been right from when Florence Upton created them. If you're too thick to see that, it's a problem. If you consider it a symbol of the politically correct brigade to limit your thinking, your thinking is already limited.

There's really no need for them to exist any more. The only reason anyone would still make them is to cause controversy. Like someone marketing Scold's Bridles or Ducking Stools or trying to put a black minstrel show on TV. There's no one begging for these products and the only reason to put them out is to be dickish, waiting to say your "but I'm only doing free speech!" piece.

Roanoke- so very right.

They are definitely racist. I remember chants of "get back on your jam jar" in the playground when I was little. If that's not offensive then I don't know what is.

Dawndonnaagain get off your high horse! I'm just commenting on a childhood memory and my point was that as a kid I didn't know what the doll represented, just that it was a doll. There was no malicious intent. There's no need to insult me, get over yourself.

Should I get over the scars I have from being beaten up by the NF in the 1970s as well Strawberry.

Apart from which, you posited the question as long as there is no racist intent what's the issue? I've explained the issue. Clearly, concisely. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

Whenever people use phrases like PC gone mad or politically correct brigade I want to ask then about the words and actions they feel prevented from using. I suspect they just want the freedom to be racist, xenophobic etc.

I suppose I should find it depressing to read Strawberry's comments but sadly there are plenty of younger people who you'd think would be more aware.

Meaning of course that age is no guide to ignorance.

People saying it's the "PC Brigade"??? No. They are racist. If a child plays with one, it does not know it is a racist toy, obviously. Playing with it does not make that child racist. But the dolls themselves are inherently racist. Whether or not they are racist to you, and you just feel nice and nostalgic about them, is irrelevant. They were made in the likeness of minstrels, which were..... you know what, google it. The swastika is just black lines, IT itself is not racist - is it?? I might get my kids some swastika stickers cos you know, my kids won't be all racist n stuff because they're sticking swastikas all over the place. But no. Swastikas are fucking evil and racist. Golliwogs are racist. Buy a cute and realistic looking black skinned doll if you would like to have one. If they don't make them, ask Mattel or whoever - why that might be and that you'd like to see more races and cultures faithfully represented in kids toys. They're racist, and if I saw one for sale in a toy shop I'd be furious and would complain.

Exactly sooty!!

The doll itself isn't a racist toy, and was never made to depict black people in a negative light. It also has no links to black slavery at all - can't understand why people seem to think it has?? It was a character created for a children's book in the late 1800's and was loved and enjoyed by children of all races. It's the name itself which eventually took on a loosely veiled racist meaning, as black people were referred to as 'wogs' in a derogatory way, so over time the word started to be linked to the gollywog doll.

The look of the Golliwog in Florence Kate Upton's books was based on blackfaced minstrels which were enormously popular at the time.

Would you say blackface minstrels were not racist, Livelove?

Anyone in any doubt about gollies (I refuse to say the word W**) being racist can google Museum of Jim Crow Racist Memorabilia. It shows just how many ugly toys and figurines and pictures were created that tried to portray black people as caricatures to be made fun of

It has no links to black slavery? As with the minstrels, on which the toy is based, it served as a tool to dehumanise and further stereotype black people well into the 20th century. At the time of publishing, Florence Upton lived in the US, where black people still had absolutely no rights, apart from that of being no longer slaves since the civil war. In many cases in the Deep South, many slaves were unaware that slavery had been abolished, and continued to be worked into the ground. As I said above, you don't have to 'be' racist to have enjoyed playing with one as a child etc. But if you make the choice to educate yourself on the origins of the minstrels, black-face, and the way black peoples were treated during the time of the inception of the golly, you may find yourself closer to understanding as to why it is so bloody offensive. It's 'cute' face, is a direct copy of a white person dressed as a minstrel. White people dressed as black people and called themselves minstrels, because blacks weren't allowed to perform. They then used these performances to spew forth stereotypes about black people, to spread the narrative of black people needing to be kept in their place, and often would sing or act (yes still pretending to be black) about how they missed picking cotton, and lived serving their 'master'. THIS is what the golliwog is based on. If you didn't know, that's ok, but now you do. As I said in my previous post about the swastika, if I show my kids a swastika, they'd think nothing of it, it's just lines to them. If I explained to them what it represented, they would probably weep in distress and no doubt throw it out. The golly doll is no better than a swastika, even if you don't get why.

They were created as a racist caricature.

Once you are aware of that, surely it's not in any way okay to still think it's fine to have/buy/sell them. Unless you're racist.

Well they are obviously but I did love mine, back in the 1950s. I never liked dolls or teddies but I do wonder where mine disappeared to.

mygogoorge:
if you showed your kids a swastika they'd probably think it was the Asian good luck symbol it always was, and still is.

My mother votes BNP and she thought Gollies were racist in 1992*.

Case closed.

*I know because there was a bit of a contretemps between her and my grandmother over Robinsons jam jars that year.

Dalek Thank god you've got a black 'BFF' who is not offended
I am mixed race and I find them offensive.

redactio I forgot that children were so aware of Asian good luck symbols

Hotfuzzed

Asian children are, don't they count?

Ahhhh yes! I know that the swastika is an ancient symbol, that Hitler hijacked for his own fucked up Aryan ancestry bullshit reasons. As a person who has extensive experience in both Sanskrit and SE Asian studies, I wasn't unaware of this - but in western culture an adult sees a swastika and what do they think? Nazi. Asian cultures are not being aresholes for keeping ancient swastika symbols, they had them first! I was simply making an analogy about the blissful ignorance of not knowing the evil meaning behind things, and that being fine, but when you do then come to understand, you stop. I meant that if you understand what something was used for, know that it's use was offensive, and still continue to defend it - that then becomes offensive.