To wonder if this is normal? Noisy neighbours, wits end!

[user1487689176]

I don't know if this is standard 3 year old behaviour. I don't have children. I live alone below a family of two parents and one DC. She is constantly running about, banging, crying and screaming the place down. It is so loud it makes my furniture rattle. She will shout and yell at the top of her voice, most of the time this isn't an 'upset' noise more like frustration or tantrum. Often the parents will just yell back at her making the same noise. This starts around 7am and will continue late into the night - the child has no discernable routine. She is clearly very energetic but I rarely see her being taken outside, either to their large child-friendly garden or to the local park (I work from home so am very aware that they almost never leave the house). I am listening to this right now, she is obviously trying to attract parents attention and is just making a repeated erhh eeerrhhh noise at the top of her voice. It's so fucking loud.

The noise sets me on edge, annoys the shit out of me and makes my cats jump. I see them sometimes taking bins out, etc and they seem nice enough people, just no thought to the impact their constantly screaming child is having on those around them.

I'm expecting responses along the lines of she's a child, what can they do.. I don't care really I just don't see why my work and my enjoyment of my home space should be so severely disrupted throughout the day just because two people decided to procreate.

No it's not normal at all.

first of all, children do not need to shout and scream at all. They can have the odd tantrum, but anything else is unacceptable. Having a child does not mean you are allowed to make as much noise as you want.

Then if you live in a flat, you must be considerate and respect other people. If you have a young child, you take him out for most of the days to run and spend his energy.

My kids have never been allowed to scream in our house. They can be kids and play without behaving like animals.

I would tell them nicely that the sounds carry more than they think, and if they could possibly keep it down a notch. It sounds awful.

Have you spoken to them about the noise?

It would annoy me too, hence I live in a detached house. One reason that downstairs flats are cheaper is that they are less desirable due to similar situations.

Do you live in a house or a flat. if they are in the flat above you, then has there been noise from neighbours in the past?

there are several issues here

1. the sound insulation between the two dwellings might not be up to standard in which case you can ask your local EHO to investigate. however, be aware that if they find it isn't up to standard the owners of the properties have to pay to put it right.
2. if it is a flat, do they have carpet or wooden floors? if wooden there might be something in your lease that says they need carpet which would hopefully deaden the noise somewhat.
3. it is very, very unlikely that noise from a child is going to be deemed to be a statutory noise nuisance under the law. without legal recourse then your options are a bit more limited. I suggest you talk to them calmly and ask one of them to come down and listen when toddler is making noise so that they can hear it for themselves. it might help a bit.

Unfortunately though, you do seem a bit noise sensitive. children do make a noise during the day time and cant be out of the house all of the time. some children make a lot of noise.

at the end of the day you need to pursue the avenues suggested above. but, if all else fails and the noise is still disturbing to you then you really need to re-think your working environment.

Actually I don't think that is normal. Even if this poor girl had some kind of disability, the fact that they never go out suggests to me she is bored and frustrated. Lack of routine and shouting back all the time also not good. Don't know what you can do though, except find a way to minimise the impact on you.

you do seem a bit noise sensitive
sorry, but as opposed to be hard of hearing, or deaf?

TBH I don't think it matters if this normal behaviour or not. how on earth is the OP going to get them to change their behaviour towards parenting their child. if she points this out, it will just get their backs up.

all you can go on OP is that the noise that is being transmitted to your property is excessive and disturbing. if you start commenting on their parenting then anything else you say will be lost in their indignation at being told how to parent by someone who doesn't have kids.

They could take her out more but yes, in general, 3 year olds are noisy and cant be considerate of thd neighbours. That's why I'd never live in a flat with my two noisy ds's. Ds5 and OH have had the same conversation every day for 3 years "shh, it's too early for shouting", "ok! SORRY DAD! WOO LOOK AT MY CAR GO!" "Name, you're shouting" etc. I feel so sorry for our neighbours. Our noise starts much earlier than 7am too.

Maybe she has learning difficulties.
Maybe the reason they shout back at her is they are struggling to cope.
Maybe the reason they don't go out to the park is they can't handle the disparaging looks from other people or she has no sense of danger and it would be dangerous for her.
Yes it's not nice having your peace and quiet disturbed, but there may be issues of which you have no knowledge. Start talking to them and see what they say.

PointxTaken - sensitivity to noise is a recognised condition and issue. I am an ex EHO who spent 20 years in this field so I am speaking about it with knowledge and confidence.

hard of hearing and deaf people can also suffer with sensitivity to noise.

if the OP goes to her local EHO and complains about noise from children, she wont get very far I am afraid.

I had this kid. So the comments about children not being like this are However, we spent every day out of the house (beach in December anyone?) because otherwise she would be unmanageable for me and a nightmare for everyone else. She has since been diagnosed with SEN but at the time wasn't.

Have a chat with them. But do it in a way that isn't overly critical.

I'm wary of bringing it up with them as I want good neighbour relations, I have a feeling we will all be neighbours for some time and I stupidly feel awkward talking to them about it.

mummymeister without hearing the sheer volume yourself I cannot see how you can come to the conclusion I am being oversensitive, I have a perfectly normal awareness of noise. And no I agree children can't be out of the house all the time but I feel they should be out getting exersise and enjoying the outdoors at least some of the time which just doesn't hapen in this case. I shouldn't have to change my living or working habits just because upstairs are poor parents.

I feel sorry for the child, it sounds like she's desperately trying to communicate and it's almost upsetting when they just yell back at her in equal volume. It's like none of them know how to use their words.

sensitivity to noise is a recognised condition and issue I don't deny that at all, what I meant is that misbehaved children allowed to create a constant racket, screaming and shouting are a nuisance for most people. You don't need to suffer from a condition to be affected by horrible neighbours.
Of course, toddlers are not considerate of others, it's up to their parents to teach them how to behave. You can't expect complete silence from a family, but constant daily noise is unacceptable. You don't listen to loud music/ tv all day and leave your kids screaming when you live in a flat.

I do not have a sensitivity to noise, I have a completely normal perception and reactions to excessive nuisance noise levels.

By the way the child does not have SN before that bandwaggon gets rolling. Just seems constantly over energised and nowhere to run off energy. And frustrated with lack of engagement from parents. I'd bloody shout in that situation. It's not her fault. she's 3. It's theirs. Inconsiderate.

shouting at your kid constantly is not normal. Yes a kid can be noisy (and running around and talking loudly is normal for a 3 year old) but it's up to the parents to minimize the noise not add to it!

How do you know the child doesn't"t have sn? Since you brought it up.

I have a lot of sympathy because I had a similar problem, years ago before I had kids. I lived in a flat below a family whose toddler shrieked, ran, banged and yelled until 2am every night. It was hell. I was woken repeatedly and had to get up at 6am for work.

I think you can expect daytime noise but not constant screeching and thumping walls, jumping off furniture etc. Most toddlers are in bed by 8pm or earlier, mine isn't allowed out of her cot between 8pm-6am.

I ended up moving because it was ruining my enjoyment of life and sleep. I had some success by complaining to landlord but after a few weeks it would escalate again. The toddler used to run constantly from wall to wall screaming.

Have you complained to landlord? Any chance you can move? The relief when I moved was indescribable.

My toddler is very active and likes running, but I tire her out at softplay and swimming so she doesn't run or scream much indoors.

so you are ignoring my other advice and just jumping on the fact that I said that you sounded a bit noise sensitive?

I'll just say it again. there may be a structural reason and that's worth looking at. if its not structural then telling your neighbours that they don't know how to parent is going to go down really badly.

you might want to think about mediation. sometimes this can help resolve the issue to a certain extent.

you only have 3 choices OP - live with it, try to solve it or move. they are not going to suddenly change how they parent their child.

I agree with a PP who says don't make it sound to the parents that you are criticizing their parenting as it would make them less open to discuss it or make changes.
An idea would be to have one of the parents over while the other one stays upstairs with the child (= noise continues).
Ideal scenario would be to find a way to have one over without telling them it is related to the noise, then once they are at yours you wait to see if they will acknowledge it. If they don't you can say something (and they can't deny it is loud as they are hearing it with you), and then you innocently say something like "I imagine you will be taking her outside soon to let her blow off some steam? kids are full of energy, bless them".

Unless you are stalking them, I cannot see how you know whether the child is getting out enough or whether she has a routine that is in place , but doesn't always go the way the parents wishes.
I am assuming as you are alone that your house is much quieter than there's and as a result their noise will seem much louder to you than to them. However children make a lot of noise, banging and screaming etc. Lol of mine have been through a delightful phase of screeching at the top of their lungs out of no where. Have they got wooden floors?? As that can be a nightmare with noise.

It's not on, YANBU. This is a toddler, so the noise is not likely to get quieter for some time yet.

But YABU to come on here asking for advice when you haven't even spoken to them! It won't be easy as I'm sure they'll ask you how they're supposed to keep the child quiet, but other than soundproofing your ceiling you have to start there!

It's my pet peeve people saying that they know that children don't have SEN. How the hell? The parents might not even know yet! I didn't have a diagnosis when DD was three.

We recently moved house away from our noisy neighbours. It's only now that we live next to people who make what I consider to be a normal amount of noise - we can hear the odd cough, the odd scrape of furniture, a door closing occasionally- that I realise just how noisy our previous neighbours were. All conversations were yelled, the kids would be upstairs shouting at each other and the parents would be downstairs shouting up to the kids. The three dogs would bark and bark, doors would be slammed, drums drummed.

I think some people are just noisy and don't realise it, or think it matters. I had other neighbours years ago who thought nothing of hoovering at midnight and playing loud music while they played chess late at night. We got along very well generally and they were astonished when I knocked on the door late one night to ask them to turn the music down as the baby and I were trying to sleep. They weren't nasty or anything just,well, astonished.

Have a word with them, they may have no idea how noisy they are.

That would drive me completely mad - it's obviously loud for it to make you so on edge and your cats jump ... maybe she does indeed have special needs, but it seems to me from what you say that she is just frustrated and probably going stir crazy if they never go out and she can't get rid of some energy. I would want to have a word with the parents because you can't live like this, but would be worried how they would react to her in future when you say they shout at her already - it's awkward but you shouldn't have to live like this at all

Oh wow OP!

You can diagnose SEN with a quick glance!

Quick market it! You'll be in demand and make a fortune.

You don't know. Hell the parents might not even know themselves

That said you need to speak to them