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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask for help with DS (5) sleep

106 replies

catgirl1976 · 20/02/2017 20:32

DS is 5.

He has never been a good sleeper. He was 3 before he slept through the night and after that it was sporadic.

He generally sleeps through now but getting him to go to sleep is a nightmare.

He is currently hysterical.

Every night there is a different reason why he can't sleep. (Tonight he wants the cat - the cat has heard the hysterics and run a mile)

It ranges from general messing about and shouting to hysteria and sobbing. He will not go to sleep. He fights bedtime.

We have tried everything - all the usual stuff. No screen time, calming routine, bath, lavender spray, staying with him, controlled crying, white noise, earlier bedtime, later bedtime. you name it we've tried it. And nothing works.

He can go on till gone 11pm. It's exhausting for him and for us.

He wakes between 6:30am and 7am

Bedtime is normally 7pm to 7:30pm

He's active and gets lots of exercise

Some nights he sobs becuase he's tired and wants to go to sleep but can't

He says he can't switch him mind off and he also legs his leg will never stop moving

He's distressed, I'm distressed and we are all exhausted. If you could hear him right now you'd think he was in physical pain. It's horrible

I am at my wits end. If anyone has any advice. I'm even thinking of going to the GP but I think they'd fob me off and not get how bad this is

Any advice at all would be really welcome

OP posts:
Original poster
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 20:54

I'll try the iron and the epsom salts

He's had the CD on for an hour now. I don't think he's asleep but at least he's calm

Glad yours went off without too much trouble Breton

OP posts:
DarlingCoffee · 22/02/2017 21:00

We are co sleeping with our DD aged 5, it's the only thing that seems to settle her, she's always been a troubled sleeper. Hoping she grows out of it soon!

BretonTop · 22/02/2017 21:00

Calm is a great positive step forward Smile

booox · 22/02/2017 21:07

The other thing ds has taken to doing is looking at books and comics while he listens to Pooh (or the relevant Pooh bit in a book we have), with a pile of transformers and other things around him and stuffed down the side of the bed rail he has like a pouch. Seems to help!

I've just peeled him off a magazine he'd nodded off on.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 21:49

1 hour 40 minutes of the CD. We are back to hysterics

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Original poster
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 21:51

DH is saying to let him cry it out :( thinks going up to him is doing more harm than good. But it feels cruel

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SciFiFan2015 · 22/02/2017 22:00

Really random suggestion - what about a weighted blanket? Would that help with the fidgeting? When DD was smaller and needed to nap but was too tired to do so I used to lie her on the bed and cuddle her quite tightly, she'd be sleeping in minutes. A friend speaks really fondly of being tightly tucked in when she was a child, so I wonder if that feeling might help? Like I said random but it might help!

booox · 22/02/2017 22:03

Do you ever stay with him to help him go to sleep? I feel he needs to trust you're there.

booox · 22/02/2017 22:04

Sci-fi a good idea but a proper OT weighted blanket shouldn't be used like this. A heavy normal blanket maybe. I suspect that's not the issue though.

MsJudgemental · 22/02/2017 22:50

Bedtime is bedtime. You are the adult; he is the child. Do not engage. Goodnight.

memememum · 22/02/2017 23:13

I feel your pain Sad Our 5 yr old son actually loves the cosiness of bedtime but suffers from night terrors many nights a week. We need to get involved to keep him physically safe, luckily he wakes up in the morning with no idea of what's gone on. Long term sleep deprivation is sooo hard!

BretonTop · 23/02/2017 09:26

catgirl have you ever left him to cio? I've done it with mine since they were babies, so I'm more used to them crying for five minutes then giving up and going to sleep. I understand if it's not your thing though, it'll be very hard to listen to him.

Sunnie1984 · 23/02/2017 10:39

I agree with audiobooks, it will take him some time to get used to it.

We have to be incredibly strict with our three year old. He pushes for attention, gets overtired and then the hysterics start.

So we have one story each (two kids), cuddles and then into bed with a lullaby before leaving the room.

He NEVER gets more than that, as it's the path to madness!

If he will go to bed for grandparents no problem, then I'm afraid you need to choose limits and stick to them.

If ours calls us back in after we have left, we go back in once and then no more.

After he has recovered from a bug (and therefore had more cuddles etc during the night), it often takes a night of ignoring the screaming to reset him for bedtime.

The softly softly approach just didn't work and made things worse.

Put the audiobook on and go downstairs and leave him to it. If he knows you are outside the door he will probably stay awake!

Wind in the willows is a goood audiobook, as it goes on for hours, so he can take his time to go to sleep! X

LuchiMangsho · 23/02/2017 16:16

Honestly I think some of this is attention seeking. He's not a baby. I am assuming he gets enough loving attention in the day time. If he is shouting after his CD then let him shout. He knows it brings you back in.
I would a) get super duper strict about the routine with lots of warning b) toughen up and not let him get anything extra- no extra story, no 'I have one more question Mummy.' Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Being chronically sleep deprived is not good for anyone. And is harming him.
If he can sleep elsewhere he can sleep for you as well.
1 hour 40 mins of CD time is also too long. A too long night routine can over-stimulate.
Keep the whole thing from start to finish to 40 mins including a 20 min story. And that's it. If he is not sleepy then he stays in his room quietly looking at books. He is not to disturb you. You should disengage entirely if he tries.
This sounds like he has far too much control at bedtime and is craving some boundaries.

booox · 23/02/2017 16:17

....or it's extreme anxiety.

LuchiMangsho · 23/02/2017 16:26

He's anxious because no one has taught him HOW to fall asleep. He knows he is behaving badly but doesn't know how not to. Learning to fall asleep/good sleep hygiene is a learned skill like learning to swim or ride a bike.

TheABC · 23/02/2017 16:42

Our son (3.5) was like this a few months ago. DH got tough and he now has a strict routine of bath, story, bed (with a glass of milk). We also have a strict "no-screentime" policy between tea time (5ish) and bedtime (7:30pm). Instead we play with him, go for walks and generally pay him attention. It's worked so far. But the first week was hellish - two hours of screaming on the first night.

steff13 · 23/02/2017 16:51

I give my daughter melatonin when she is having trouble sleeping. I don't know if it's available OTC there, but it helps her.

I'd try letting him cry it out , personally. Maybe there's something else going on, but it sounds like it just may be a battle of wills. Especially if he doesn't act up like this for his grandparents. At 5, he's old enough to understand that bedtime means sleep, and also to realize that if he complains too much you're not going to make him go to bed.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 23/02/2017 19:45

We've tried CIO

It worked when he was 18 months - took 3 nights and then he slept well for a decent chunk

But now he can cry for literally hours. And I can't listen to him getting so hysterical he makes himself for hours on end. I end up sobbing, DH ends up saying I'm teaching him we will come if he screams. On the occasions I have stuck it out he's wound himself up so much and he honestly doesn't give up after ten or fifteen minutes - he just goes on and on

He wanted to go to bed bang on 7 tonight to listen to his magic stories. So far not a peep but it was the same last night and then hysterics when they finished

I agree he needs to be taught to go to sleep but he doesn't stop if left

We do the no eye contact, straight back into bed thing but again he can keep that going for three hours or so, so it's exhausting and whilst I know it's vital to be consistent, in real life it's harder than on paper. Especially when you're on night 4 of a battle, no sleep and you've got a big meeting in the next morning and need to be up at six.

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Original poster
catgirl1976 · 23/02/2017 19:47

Maybe a little walk after dinner for some last minute fresh air would help. It's hard to fit everything in as some nights he's at after school till five, so dinner, reading, bath, etc take us till seven easily as it is

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Sunshinegirl82 · 23/02/2017 20:04

Can he read by himself yet? I have always found it very difficult to switch my head off as it were and still listen to podcasts to get to sleep now!

According to my mum reading helped loads with me going to sleep. They just let me read and eventually I would drop off. I was also a big fan of audio books! It takes a while to get used to audio books and I have to listen to things I know really well so I don't get invested and stay awake to find out what happens. You may find that as he listens to the cd over and over again and it stops being interesting he might drop off sooner.

Good luck! I feel for him, it is difficult if you can't switch off like other people seem to be able to!

booox · 23/02/2017 20:21

I'm sorry I don't believe a child being hysterical teaches them anything other than to be hysterical. Sorry if I'm short op but you are asking for opinions.

Imo children learn best with trusted adults. So I'd show him how to go to sleep by lying either next to him or on a mattress on the floor.

It won't be forever, it's just for now. You've tried the crying approach; it's not working right now as he's older and has more worries, concern etc.

Brilliant he wants his stories, listen with him. You'll probably nod off too so ask DH to wake you up.

Apart from anything, the minute he's hysterical, he'll be full of adrenaline. Adrenaline takes around 3 hours to start to reduce, so a stressful bedtime will mean he's more likely to wake in the night. Plus he won't ever learn that bedtime is a nice relaxing time till you show him.

If he was messing about, having fun, pulling things out in his room, I'd be firm and put my foot down. But he's not.

I'm not hearing that you've tired this tactic yet. If you went to the gp and discussed a pead referral they'd want to know you've tried this. I know a paediatrician who would absolutely advocate this and I know a friend who took her daughter to see two. But said daughter wasn't hysterical, just couldn't sleep at all.

The gentle sleep book has s huge array of suggestions for older children. Playing with them in their room, a good chunk of running around in daylight around noon, soft orange lighting (no harsh bright leds) in the evening, relaxation strories, red light as a night light for example. Accepting your child may need a bit of empathetic adult help at this stage in their life, and it too shall pass.

booox · 23/02/2017 20:23

My son has moved on from this approach to listening by himself while looking at books alone, no crying ever needed; if he became distressed I back tracked and reassured till he seemed ready again.

Also - age 5 - is he in reception or y1? Either way it's a big learning curve and regressions often happen when they're learning lots.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 23/02/2017 20:45

We've tried co-sleeping and we've tried staying with him. He doesn't settle and will stay awake all night trying to chat even if we don't engage / pretend to be asleep.

He's in reception and he can't yet read to himself (sounding out words and so on so getting there but not there yet)

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Original poster
catgirl1976 · 23/02/2017 20:46

Messing about, playing with torches, chucking stuff around his room etc tends to preceed the hysteria

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