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Original poster

To ask for help with DS (5) sleep

106 replies

catgirl1976 · 20/02/2017 20:32

DS is 5.

He has never been a good sleeper. He was 3 before he slept through the night and after that it was sporadic.

He generally sleeps through now but getting him to go to sleep is a nightmare.

He is currently hysterical.

Every night there is a different reason why he can't sleep. (Tonight he wants the cat - the cat has heard the hysterics and run a mile)

It ranges from general messing about and shouting to hysteria and sobbing. He will not go to sleep. He fights bedtime.

We have tried everything - all the usual stuff. No screen time, calming routine, bath, lavender spray, staying with him, controlled crying, white noise, earlier bedtime, later bedtime. you name it we've tried it. And nothing works.

He can go on till gone 11pm. It's exhausting for him and for us.

He wakes between 6:30am and 7am

Bedtime is normally 7pm to 7:30pm

He's active and gets lots of exercise

Some nights he sobs becuase he's tired and wants to go to sleep but can't

He says he can't switch him mind off and he also legs his leg will never stop moving

He's distressed, I'm distressed and we are all exhausted. If you could hear him right now you'd think he was in physical pain. It's horrible

I am at my wits end. If anyone has any advice. I'm even thinking of going to the GP but I think they'd fob me off and not get how bad this is

Any advice at all would be really welcome

OP posts:
Kahlua4me · 20/02/2017 22:40

One thing I found that helped us was to start reading a book normally but to get quieter as it went along. The dc then have to stop talking and lie really still to listen and that gives them enough chance to relax ready to sleep!!

Girlwhowearsglasses · 20/02/2017 22:42

I'm thinking restless leg syndrome - get thee to GP- it can be a simple iron deficiency.

Before that though get this kidssleepdr.com app - it's from he Evelina Childrens Hospital - part of St Thomas' in London. It's a sleep diary app that allows really easy analysis of sleep patterns. Fill it in as soon as you can because your GP will have to listen if you show them: this kind of diary is what they ask you to fill in before you can access sleep clinics. Also do all the obvious and mention you practice good 'sleep hygiene' when you visit GP (i.e. No screens, calming down towards bedtime etc etc)

One thing that is often advised is to go over the day with the child, esp any nice things hat happened as a wind down excercise.

Mindfulness visualisation/relaxation music is quite nice - there's one we have where you go on an hot air balloon and a dolphin ride- if our search 'guided meditation children' you might find it - will have a look

Girlwhowearsglasses · 20/02/2017 22:45

Actually there are loads and also some YouTube ones if you google 'guided sleep meditation for kids'

Clementiny · 20/02/2017 22:46

Would laying with him while he goes to sleep help? I sit in my nearly 5 year olds room and we have a 5-10 minute chat after stories then she must be quiet and sleep. If she didn't, I'd leave, but usually she's asleep within ten minutes. I think sometimes just the reassurance that they aren't alone helps, as does the need to be quiet.

Dragongirl10 · 20/02/2017 22:50

If he goes to bed without problems at GPS, there is your answer....he is just playing you up because you let him.

Stop tolerating it and the problem will soon go away.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 20/02/2017 22:50

Some great advice on here

And, whilst I wouldn't wish this on anyone, it is hearterning to know I'm not alone

OP posts:
BretonTop · 20/02/2017 22:53

Thanks edwin - he's really into torches atm so I'll give it a go!

noclevername · 20/02/2017 22:54

Short bath, say 5 mins. Longer can be invigorating.

edwinbear · 20/02/2017 22:56

Breton make sure you switch it off before you go to bed because I guarantee he will fall asleep with it on and they eat batteries 😄

BretonTop · 21/02/2017 20:18

How's it going tonight OP? Have any of the hints and tips worked? My 3yo went to bed at 6.45pm tonight, chatted/shouted/kicked in his bed for 45mins but I ignored him and he fell asleep around 7.30 Smile

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 21/02/2017 20:30

Strangely he has gone to sleep tonight without a murmur (this is a rare event!) and we haven't done anything differently although his little cousin came round after school and they ran about like rabid monkeys.

He's also had Forest School today so he will have been outside for a couple of hours which has probably helped - plus he must be exhausted from last night's hysterics

I've ordered the CD and it's coming tomorrow so fingers crossed! I'll let you know if it works for him. I've told him about it and he's really excited as he wants to sleep!

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 21/02/2017 20:40

What happens if you don't try to impose a bedtime? Just turn off the TV, don't talk to him other than in soft voices (and if he initiates conversation), don't give him anything to entertain him (including food and drink). It may be that the anxiety of bedtime is causing him to go into 'fight or flight' mode. If you back off completely he may start to tire naturally.

BretonTop · 21/02/2017 20:47

Ah yay catgirl I'm so glad you and he have had an uneventful bedtime Smile Always good to have a night off from the drama and recharge your batteries.

My ds1 (6) has clearly been handed the mess-about-at-bedtime baton, as he's still awake and stalling Angry I moved his bedtime later, to 8pm, so ds1 was settled first, but now regretting it.

OohNoDooEy · 21/02/2017 20:54

If he behaves for the grandparents, it's the attention he likes rather than an inability to fall asleep.

Explain in the day that once it is 7pm has passed, it is bedtime and you're not talking anymore then do your routine and stick to it.

If he gets up, put him back to bed. Take the light bulbs out if he's going to get up and turn the lights on. No eye contact, no emotion (good or bad), just be a robot and walk back to the room.

Repeat, repeatedly!! He will get there.

Tiddler7 · 21/02/2017 21:09

Epsom salts, magnesium (Floradix magnesium), vit b3. We are going through the same, and those things helped. Read also about iron.

Chocolateorangegoblin · 21/02/2017 21:12

My 3 year old listens to the guided meditations on youtube, it's made a big difference. Good luck OP.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 16:07

The Meditation CD has come

I'm very excited
I had a listen and I feel quite chilled out myself - fingers crossed

I will report back how it goes. Hopefully it will work and might work for some of the other monkeys on this thread!

If this doesn't work I'll be tempted to take MILs advice of a rubber mallet (light hearted obviously!)

OP posts:
BretonTop · 22/02/2017 19:43

Good luck catgirl! Are you playing it in his room? Will you stay with him?

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 20:12

So far so good!

I sat outside his room whilst the first one played - not a peep

I crept in to switch off the CD player and he said (sleepily) that he loved it but I'd woken him up, so he's got the last one playing now (so I won't need to swtich off the player till we go up to bed) and still not a murmur. It's just finishing by the sounds of it so fingers crossed!!!

Breton - how has your DS been tonight?

OP posts:
GeorgeTheHamster · 22/02/2017 20:23

Why did you creep in to switch it off? No need for that!

I agree - be stricter, don't let him bugger you about, and stick with the CDs, story tapes or whatever.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2017 20:30

2nd story finished and he started shouting.

OP posts:
BretonTop · 22/02/2017 20:39

That's great he likes it! I guess it'll take time for you both to get used to a new routine, and for you to be strong and not go into his room.

We had family over for dinner tonight, and I suddenly panicked as realised it was 6.45 and we were all still downstairs. Managed to get him sorted, books read and into bed for 7pm. He was so tired after a 5.50am start today. He did his usual kicking, crawling and shuffling about in bed for 45 mins, whilst chatting to himself. He then shouted "Mummy!" For a few mins before falling asleep- hurrah! Ds1 was asleep around the same time, so both asleep by 8pm = the best night in a long time Smile I'm watching the Brits now...hope your ds drifts off soon catgirl.

booox · 22/02/2017 20:47

My son has had issues cutting off. He's 4. I used story tapes - I got audible on my phone and he now has that as I got a new phone. We tried the meditation cd and it really helped but he's taken to Winnie the Pooh (I think one is free on audible).

He has only been able to let me leave him in the last 4 months. Previously he'd get distressed which lengthened it. We get phases of sleeping through, usually instigated by DH!

I got him happily listening to stories and started doing 'jobs' outside his room. I'd pop back regularly and if he got upset would lie with him till asleep. However, he got more used to nodding off with out me slowly. There were regressions and I regressed with him to help him through.

Then he started enjoying playing with a toy while listening to the stories. Then he'd actually tell me to go away as I'd tell him he couldn't if I was there, so he could do it secretly!

I'm currently listening to Pooh now - but they're lovely!

He actually always nods off at 8. I read they need at least 40 mins wind down.

I'd try the tapes but stay with him initially in all honesty. Gradually retreat when he's used to it.

booox · 22/02/2017 20:49

You could ask for a referral to a pead; a friend has seen two for her dd. All agreed it was just her and normal actually. She doesn't tend to go to sleep till 10.

I'd second Epsom salts and try giving a multivitamin with iron, limit milk to first thing and evening so it doesn't interfere with iron absorption. My gp said most kids are iron deficient and I found sleep hard when I was low in iron too.

booox · 22/02/2017 20:50

Another tip is to play with them in their room during the day, have it bright and fun.