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AIBU?

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Original poster

To dare speak about Vaxxed on MN?

496 replies

thegoodfight · 20/02/2017 14:37

NC for this but a regular.

So I've just watched the documentary Vaxxed. I know how vaccine threads unfold on MN, so I'm ready to be told IABU however I feel like everyone should see this whatever your views - it's about the cover up around studies into autism and MMR

There is an admission from a CDC insider that he worked on the study and hid data which proved a link (a strong an quite frankly astounding one) and the data was sent to an external biologist who saw it for himself. There are first hand accounts from parents, scientists, doctors and politicians. The CDC haven't denied anything or called their lawyers despite it being an allegation of the biggest medical fraud ever (not exact words but something along those lines)

I just can't believe it's not been in the news! AIBU to ask if anyone else is planning to watch it??

OP posts:
38cody · 21/02/2017 00:27

i'll watch it.thx

Verbena37 · 21/02/2017 00:28

noble....but check out that author Prof. Doris Rubinstein Reiss..... not entirely non biased I'd say....
Evidently, there is a network of interests here which endangers public accountability. Dorit Reiss’s employer is not simply a school of law; it is affiliated to major promoters of the vaccine program and has a strategic role in developing health policy

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2017 00:34

I've read Bad Pharma and been to a billion Ben Goldacre lectures. I've also worked on clinical trials.

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2017 00:37

What has the author of an article reporting that the Italian Court decision was overturned got to do with the actual decision to overturn it? It was overturned because it turned out the decision heavily relied on sodding Wakefield.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 00:43

"I've also worked on clinical trials."

A-ha! Maybe that explains your pro pharma stance?!

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2017 00:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 00:46

I must admit, I've only been to one Goldacre lecture, so I can't compete with your billion. You must either be his biggest fan or greatest nemesis to want to listen to that pompous arse a billion times.
Wait a minute....are you him?!

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 00:48

And on that note I must log off. G'night Ben!
;)

noblegiraffe · 21/02/2017 01:00

I had a bit of a crush on him back in the Bad Science days...anyway one of the talks I saw was the first time he was allowed to speak about Matthias Rath (vitamins to cure AIDS, on a massive scale in Africa) after the court case suing Goldacre was dropped. He binned his planned speech and went off on one, and bloody hell it was horrifying and powerful.

Everyone should read this www.badscience.net/2009/04/matthias-rath-steal-this-chapter/ even if you think Goldacre is a pompous arse Wink

Pugnaciousone · 21/02/2017 01:05

I haven't RTFT and cannot comment on the full complexities of vaccinations but as a long time lurker felt compelled to post as a huge amount of what has been written by anti vaxxers is beyond idiotic.

Autism is NOT triggered by vaccination nor viruses or gluten or whatever else can be thunk up. Children are BORN with it. The suggestion it is triggered by whatever means is not only scientifically incorrect but also very offensive. MMR is not a trigger, autism isn't a loaded gun.

People are born with autism (my son included). I had huge worries about giving him any vaccinations due to my DP's families stance and did my research - there was limited evidence and despite my son having autism I point no fingers at vaccinations.

I find this scaremongering abhorrent.

Toypotpony · 21/02/2017 01:25

Well I always put it this way..

IF there was a link between autism and vaccines I would still vaccinate my children.

I have autism, so does dd though she is at the more 'severe' end of the scale.

I have also survived meningitis.

Let me tell you, autism is a fucking walk in the park compared to that shit.

Autism makes life harder but it doesn't stop you enjoying life in any small way you can.

Death totally does though.

kel1234 · 21/02/2017 01:29

Pugnaciosone- Thank You. Exactly what my mum and I have always said. Autism is something the person is born with.

Toypotpony · 21/02/2017 01:31

Ironically my parents didn't give me the mmr because of wakefield.

Still autistic anyway and got a lovely dose of meningitis as a teenager as an added bonus!

Charlieismydarlin · 21/02/2017 06:46

Yes, winter, I do suspect.

Precious little research is being done in these areas (because there is no money to be made from doing so of course!) but my silly and pathetic mind ponders the question and looks at what has changed for children in the last 30 years.

Mock me all you like. I don't give a fuck. I have my doubts about the efficacy and integrity of the whole system but it's the best we have got so we are stuck with it.

But every time a drug or vaccine is offered to my child I do my own research. Of course my silly, non-scientific brain leads me to disagree with the current recommendations regarding the flu vaccines. I'm watching and waiting in relation to the HPV vaccine but would urge you to look at the growing (anecdotal for now) evidence of vaccine damage.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 07:41

But Charlie don't you think it's a significant part of that is due to people being more aware and better diagnostics? I was at school in the 80's with a boy whose older brother died of nut allergies because nobody had ever heard of it and his girlfriend's mother served him trifle with ground almonds on top because she just didn't realise that could trigger it. Everyone was so gobsmacked then, but now with better testing and awareness we would all know that nut allergies exist and how strong they can be.

How do you do your own research? What makes your research more plausible than say the studies linked above? It's such a major decision to take for your child's health and others.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 08:10

How do you do your own research? What makes your research more plausible than say the studies linked above? It's such a major decision to take for your child's health and others.

This topic was argued to death on another thread last week. When someone says they've done their own research it can mean anything from simply questioning their own gp up to reading every paper on the subject...What it doesn't mean is carrying out your own clinical trial. You are right, it's such a major decision...but how do you make that decision? If you just follow your GP's advice, unquestioned, that's not "making a decision"...it's doing as you are told. My own gp knows very little about vaccines. He referred me elsewhere. The so called "experts" couldn't answer my questions so I delved into all the literature I could find. People want to be sure they are doing what's best for their own child. If they read enough to satisfy themselves that they are, then they go ahead with it. If they can't find enough evidence to reassure them (in their situation, e.g. my daughter's allergies) thrn they may hesitate or not go ahead at all. Blindly following doctor's orders is not having a choice, whether ot not the majority do it for the benefit of the wider community rather than their oen child.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:15

Yes and it's been argued over and and over before that. I've seen some of the threads, don't find most of the anti vax stuff even remotely convincing though, even when it's couched in a "sinuous" way by a poster who claims not to be. If Charlie does her own research, say on the flu vaccine, and draws her own conclusion, then what? How does she test it? Who tells her whether she's right or risking her child's health unnecessarily? I have another friend whose husband died of heart failure following flu; he was 32 and otherwise in great health. Not saying the vaccine would have helped him because of course we can never know that, but it does go to show that its effects can be grossly underestimated.

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:15

-* the effects of flu itself, not the vaccine

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:17

Ah you answered the question - "they read enough to satisfy themselves." Sorry but I don't really care whether you've satisfied yourself, that means nothing to me if you're coming into contact with my family! It only means you have satisfied yourself.

Youallpissmeoff · 21/02/2017 08:20

OMG will you stop talking about autism and vaccines. Will no one answer the more important matter???

What has Robert De Nero got to do with anything? Why did he get mentioned???

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:37

He offered a $100,000 reward to anyone* who can prove vaccines are safe.

  • Anyone. Not a dr. Anyone!

Someone on Reddit said: "stop looking for reasons that your son isn't perfect. Or if you need a reason, try the fact that you were nearly 60 when he was conceived!" Harsh but probably more responsible.

MimiTheWonderGoat · 21/02/2017 08:38

Applebite, so if your gp prescribes you statins at age 40 and you are otherwise completely healthy and he says "We advise statins for everyone over 40 because they might stop you having a heart attack in the future.".....you'd just take them, without asking any questions or reading up on what statins are and why on earth they are?
Yes, vaccines affect herd immunity, but you saying it'll affect your children if I don't vaccinate mine is not going to persuade me to vaccinate when there's a history of vaccine reaction in our family!

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:45

No, I would ask questions, and if I didn't like the answers or thought they were woolly, I would ask for a referral to the endocrinology team at C&W so I could speak to a specialist. And I would pay for it if he said no. In the meantime I would prepare myself with a list of QUESTIONS, not answers, so that I was prepared for the discussion.

If you have a history of vaccine reactions and therefore a potentially excellent reason not to vaccinate, surely you should be even more grateful for science meaning that most people do Confused

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:46

Don't get me wrong, I think a healthy curiosity about everything is a really good thing. Everyone should ask questions about everything. It's just wrong to assume that you have all the answers!

Applebite · 21/02/2017 08:51

Funnily enough, the top threads on the right at the moment contains a link to a thread about the causes of autism - not sure if it's ok to link to it, but some interesting comments on there from posters too.