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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Anyone else find this pretty ignorant and offensive

322 replies

Herdingcows · 19/02/2017 09:22

Advert for a local company popped up on my fb, what were they thinking!

Anyone else find this pretty ignorant and offensive
OP posts:
LadyPW · 20/02/2017 15:16

I don't consider a cake advert that is playing on harmful stereotypes that belittle a serious medical condition to be being open about it, frankly, lady.
But it's got a conversation (of sorts) going on here hasn't it? And how many others are going to see the advert and mention it to someone...
Besides, which harmful stereotype do you mean? Do all of us with OCD get obsessive about cakes?

Somerville · 20/02/2017 15:20

The stereotype that OCD is about perfectionism.
Which is reinforced by that advert.

Sure, a small minority of the people who see it on their Fb feed might have a conversation and learn something off the back of it. I'm not saying negative things shouldn't be discussed.

But will most people learn something or will their stereotypes about OCD just be reinforced? I think the latter. (Maybe you are more optimistic than I am. Smile)

LadyPW · 20/02/2017 15:40

Ah you see I assumed the advert was about being obsessed by eating cakes - it fails on perfectionism for me because the cherries on the bottom cake are wonky Grin
I'm eternally optimistic - it's better for my mental health!

Somerville · 20/02/2017 15:57

I hadn't even noticed the wonky cherries. Grin

LadyPW · 20/02/2017 16:09

You're obviously not as obsessive about cakes as I am then Grin Though I do quite enjoy a good cherry cake so that might be it....

Sallystyle · 20/02/2017 17:34

The online army doesn't then flock around a push for gov. to look again at MH provision. Or the massive fuck up that is happening whereby schools are required to provide support, but have neither the expertise, nor the funds to do so to the necessary degree They don't turn to their MPs in anything like the same numbers to kick up a stink and waggle their vote with "only if you do the right thing by MH" scrawled on it in with such consistency that the gov. of the day goes "err, hang on, rethink time". ( worth remembering that political parties of ALL FLAVOURS have grossly let down people with MHI for decades )

I completely agree with that. And as someone who has to live with the effects of the cuts and crap services and the strain and heartbreak it has caused I wish more people would do more. Your post really resonated with me. Thank you for posting what you did. It has sure made me look at this a bit differently and it made me cry a little

I still don't like the cake shit, but yes, fighting these little battles have done fuck all good and more people fighting the bigger battles would be much more productive.

When people feel they have done and are doing their bit and then some, they are much harder to motivate into giving time and energy in ways that are much more costly to them personally. Especially if the route to giving donating more energy feels like boring work, and distinctly unattractive after a knackering day. Especially when they've become convinced that sitting on a comfy sofa, sub consciously feeling superior to somebody else as they police their language , is just as valid and useful.

This part is something i've never thought about until now.

I do give time and energy in trying to make a bit of bloody difference in a more meaningful way due to my husband's severe MI. It does seem like a loosing battle for sure.

Sallystyle · 20/02/2017 17:42

BTW me and my husband joke about each other lovingly all the time.

It actually helps us both. That feels very different to a business making a joke out of it.

BBCNewsRave · 20/02/2017 18:24

Online
Wow. I completely disagree with most of your post. You like having people take the piss out of you? You find that helpful?

Some of us live daily with the discrimination, rejection, and being treated like shit that comes with suffering. I don't want people making jokes about it that I'm expected to smile at. I just want to be treated kindly and humanely.

I know services are shit, I know the stuff around benefits and so on is horrendous - I live it every day. But there is a point at which I just need people to treat me as a human being, to understand I have problems because I have experienced things that hurt and have left a mark. Not be put in an "other" box and shuffled off to mental health services.

Yes, I agree people should be kicking up a stink about services - and the people who have the energy to, which isn't necessarily the "ill" ones. But in my day-to-day life, just being treated as a human, not "othered", not told my experiences and pain mean I need "services" rather than human kindness, is what would make a difference.

BBCNewsRave · 20/02/2017 18:36

I don't understand why racism (for eg.) isn't acceptable but discrimination around mental health is. And then it's all "oh it's just a joke, lighten up". There isnt even a clear word for it, like there is with "racism".

And would you say anti-racism campaigners should be campaigning for special places for black people to go, special services for black people, or that perhaps apatheid isn't a great idea and we should be campaigning for inclusion? (Obviously in some instances it would make sense for there to be safe spaces/services, just like with mental health.)

jcne · 20/02/2017 18:46

The thing about letting idiots 'offend' you is that it's you who is drinking the poison.

DioneTheDiabolist · 20/02/2017 19:08

BBCNewsrave, have you just compared MH services to apartheid?Confused

PageStillNotFound404 · 20/02/2017 19:32

It is possible to care about the small things at the same time as the larger things. As advocate for my disabled DH, one of whose disabilities is a serious and life-limiting mental illness, I spend a lot of my time lobbying my MP to press for better MH health provision and working with disabled activism groups who are trying to promote the social model of disability. I don't cruise social media looking for examples of thoughtless or insensitive terminology, but if I see something that is going to perpetuate those harmful stereotypes or continue to trivialise a complex condition, I will ask the person to think about the language they're using and explain briefly why theirs may be hurtful. My previous post sets out why it matters so I'm not going to reiterate here.

Of course it would be great to have more people taking up the fight in practical ways, but the small things do matter so if it's a choice between people doing nothing at all, or people at least pointing out why stereotypes are unhelpful or certain terms are reductive, I'll take the latter.

Sallystyle · 20/02/2017 19:36

Now, I'm finding myself agreeing with page as well.

I am getting splinters.

BBCNewsRave · 20/02/2017 22:52

Dione have you just compared MH services to apartheid?

I compared a certain aspect of society, involving mental health services, with racial segregation, yes. Crucially, in the context of replying to Online's post.

Online suggested that it would be more useful to focus on improving mental health provision rather than everyday poor attitudes to mental health issues.

I'm saying I don't want to be segregated off, othered, put in a "mental health" category, shuffled off to services. I want to be part of humanity, and that includes not being labelled and then having those labels treated as a joke.

Imagine something awful happened in your life, and you were utterly grief-stricken. But this grief was treated as bizarre and irrational and you were directed into services where medication was offered but no-one to talk to. They gloss over everything, practically pat you on the head as they encourage you to take the pills, in your cold bare room. You're thinking: but I just need some care. I need a friend to talk to, time to heal, a good cry, whatever.

In that moment, you'd probably thing that the attitudes of people on the "outside", were more important than campaigning for more of the cold rooms and pills.

That's the closest I can get to explaining. I hope that makes sense.

0nline · 21/02/2017 03:02

You like having people take the piss out of you? You find that helpful?

Absolutely. 50 years in and it is abundantly clear that the vast majority of lives get pleanty of tears. My own included. I'll grab opportunities to laugh at myself and the gaggle of lables I got lumbered with whenever I can. It lifts me up. And I need all the lifting up I can get my sticky mitts on. Because when I go down, I go down hard, fast and deep. And it takes a lot more effort to claw myself out of the pit than it does to grab hold of lighter stuff that helps keep me away from the edge of it.

Some of us live daily with the discrimination, rejection, and being treated like shit

I know. DH and I cared for his severely mentally ill mother for many years. She became ill many years before DH was born. His entire life with her until her death exposed him to the realities faced by somebody with mental illness in a world containing a fair old whack of people who either can't (or won't even try) to understand, and react with fear, disgust, distain and worse.

But there is a world of difference between

-hostility
-ill will
-desire to bully, belittle, torment for sport
-denial of the actual existence of disorders so the symptoms can be attributed to choice based character flaws
-active, flagrant discrimination
-manipulation and exploitation
-rejection
-de-humanisation
-verbal and physical violence

.... and somebody with no evident ill will making a play on words that not everybody thinks is amusing, appropriate, or inoffensive.

But in my day-to-day life, just being treated as a human, not "othered", not told my experiences and pain mean I need "services" rather than human kindness, is what would make a difference

And that "not othered", that kindness, is part of jokes at my expense. Cos that is exactly what happened BEFORE I was diagnosed. I and the people around me laughed and took the piss out of each other's shortcomings. To stop including me in that dynamic when my shortcomings got shiney new labels would have been the exact opposite of "not othering".

And a desire to avoid kindness being frightened off is why I would have preferred it if the status quo had not become so disproportionately focused on high visibility protesting of the smaller stuff. Caring for MIL I got to see an ugly side of human nature. But I also got to see many many small, and not so small, acts of human kindness. It's out there. It might not always be worded with the latest approved vocabulary, it might sometimes be clumsy, it won't always be from a position of informed beyond some outdated stereotypes. But it is there.

It could do with being given the room to grow. But that won't happen if rulers come out at warp speed nine to slap hands that pass a lack of ill will/kind test, but are deemed by some to fail in terms of grace and sensitivity.

Thousands of eyes get to see the fairly regular sight of a set of knuckles rapped, and rapped fucking hard at that. Not once, but queues of people lining up to have their thwack at the offender.

General speaking people aren't overly enthusiastic about opportunities to be publically shamed. Making increased withdrawal from people with MHI and issues relating to MH look like the safer option. Create more distance, don't engage, don't read/post on those threads, don't ask questions, avoid all but the most superficially and neutral conversations/discussions with people with MHI and about MHI

BBCNewsRave · 21/02/2017 09:15

Online Im unsure why you think my perfectly fair paraphrasing of your post was making you out to be nurse Ratchett.

I am saying that the very process of labelling my issues as "mental health problems" and deciding the solution is services, rather than kindness and friendship, is othering and unhelpful. Why the false distinction between the mentally ill and mentally well? We are all humans.

I understand that services are crap. I probably wouldn't still be struggling now if I hadn't experienced just how crap they can be. But the general public/society conceptualisation and treatment of "mental illness" is a large part of my actual difficulties! If my pain had been seen as human pain, rather than something "other", it would not have been as damaging. Those who, even lightheartedly, use labels and concepts of mental illness have contributed to my othering and thus the pain I feel.

Personally I hate having the piss taken out of me/my issues/my suffering, and being expected to laugh at it. However, unlike you, I have not experienced this is a friendly way, or at least not in a way where everyone is already taking the piss out of each other. Only experienced it in a way that is "othering", where I am expected to laugh at myself for being a freak whilst everyone else is oh so rational and normal Hmm. So maybe that explains the difference there.

I am allowed to respond to posters who think I shouldn't care despite this being related to something that has wrecked my life. I am perfectly happy to be flexible if people are clumsily trying to understand and accidentally say the "wrong" thing. But choosing to name a cake company after a mental illness is not in that cetegory.

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 09:36

Not sure this company would agree with you

ocdcak.es/

Humour, used in conjunction with cake, to raise awareness and cash for MH charities.

PageStillNotFound404 · 21/02/2017 10:15

Online, you might only find it possible to care about the small things when everything else is going well, and that's fair enough. But don't judge everyone by your standards. And sometimes, when everything else is going south, the small things are the only thing you have any control over, and so you focus on those because at least you're doing something, until you regain some equilibrium and can tackle the big things again.

Observers observe and conclude that if you and the volunteer fire service made such a big deal about the garden ants, then the bastard spiders and the charred heap of the house aren't really things you need, or care about.

Well, as any "observers" don't have a fucking clue what is going on in my life, or the lives of anyone who has stated they have found this phrase insensitive or unhelpful, and can't see whether there is a charred heap of a house behind me or whether I'm wearing the uniform of one of the volunteer fire service myself and have just come from putting out my third fire of the day, those observers can fuck off with their judgement.

0nline · 21/02/2017 11:16

I am saying that the very process of labelling my issues as "mental health problems" and deciding the solution is services, rather than kindness and friendship, is othering and unhelpful. Why the false distinction between the mentally ill and mentally well? We are all humans.

Yes. we are all human. Humans are diverse. With diverse issues and diverse needs and diverse rates of suicide, lifespan, risk of being murdered, risk of falling foul of the criminal justice system, risk of lower educational attainment, risk of chaotic lives and .... risk of social isolation. And one form of diversity is MHI, which typically does not go hand in hand with a cheerful risk load.

Is human contact and inclusion an important aspect of relieving the often deeply painful aspects of getting the short MH straw? yes.

And can it play a role in reducing the rate and frequency of the more difficult to live through/with symptoms and the pain associated with them ? yes.

Does it make life better for most people? Yes.

And can we increased this contact and inclusion with a disproportionate focus (and high levels of anger) when there is no evident ill will behind a faux pas ? Nope. Cos it doesn't exactly scream "great mate material" It does a fine job in inducing though.

Will making a lesser priority of the slash and burn going on in medical/support services help with increasing spontaneous human contact and inclusion ? No. It will only make it even thinner on the ground.

Because without adequate medical/support services ever greater numbers of people are going to suffer a worse version of their symptoms, for longer periods. Which has been known to do an exceedingly efficient job of pushing even more people away and increasing isolation and exclusion.

Not least because the more (perfectly understandably) preoccupied somebody is with managing the pressing issues caused by their symptoms, the less able they are to offer friendship as well as receive friendship. One way friendships are less attractive than the 2 way kind. The pool of people willing to participate shrinks. Social isolation increases.

But you are right about us all being human. And the human condition is liberally painted with opportunities for heavy burdens, pain, "more shit than I can deal with" and running out of energy for anybody other than oneself cos one's knees are buckling under the strain of life rain.

There is no distinction between the mentally well and the mentally not so well in the above. In the sense that none of us are immune. Most of people are affected at some point. Many spend inordinately long periods of their lifespan in a state somewhere between "oufff, I've got nothing left to give" and "Fuck my life, this is unbearable".

We all have our own short straws, bad luck, results of poor judgement and crushing curve balls to manage. Precious few are skipping through the years without a care in the world.

Worth bearing in mind next time the ruler comes out to rap "no evident ill will" knuckles. We aren't the only ones with troubles and burdens. An overly aggressive defence of minor infractions of vocabulary (etc) that bore no ill will can and does lead to somebody already dealing with a lot getting verbally battered from all angles.

Which again, doesn't exactly do much to big up our image as "good mate material".

In all honesty I absolutly do not understand how the logic gap between

-"more friendship, kindness and inclusion is needed"

and

-the popularity of a "solution" based on being unfriendly, unkind and employing excluding measures (like flaming' dog piling, shunning and ostracising) as "just desserts".

It doesn't half look like like "my toes hurt like fuck, I know, I'll shoot myself in the foot. That'll help"

user23988430 · 21/02/2017 13:11

ocdcak.es/

Humour, used in conjunction with cake, to raise awareness and cash for MH charities.

You can call me cynical, but am guessing they will have named the shop first, and later realised some people might be offended, so added the donation thing to try to pacify people.

Of course, I'm glad they donate a portion of their profits (wonder what percentage?) But I'm unconvinced that their site raises awareness about OCD or charities that support sufferers. There's no information at all on their site about either the disorder or any specific charity Sad

OurBlanche · 21/02/2017 13:21

I do call you cynical.. and would even if I hadn't done a bit more research on them Smile

www.soapboxmedia.com/innovationnews/090616-big-pitch-ocd-cakes.aspx

BBCNewsRave · 21/02/2017 18:42

online You clearly do not understand, and do not wish to. Lucky you for having experiences that fit so neatly into society's conceptualisation of "mental illness" and support around you.

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