To feel a bit sorry for women who cannot protect their own children ?

[notmeagain0]

Don't get me wrong I could never let my children come to any harm but after watching moorside I can't help feel a bit sorry for Karen. She obviously should have protected poor Shannon but I think women like this can be so brainwashed by their boyfriends/ husbands and end up thinking what they are doing is ok. I obviously have no sympathy for the person who commits any crime to a child so don't want this post to appear that I do, just the mother who has been forced into it all

l have no sympathy whatsoever for any woman or man that does not protect their children 100%

We do not live in the dark ages or in a country where women have no freedom or rights, so in my opinion there is no excuse, l am frequently horrified on reading about women going back repeatedly to an abuser when they have children to protect.

There is no one whom l would not turn my back on, if they were to threaten in any way my Dcs, even if they were my nearest and dearest.

Op you may feel sympathy for that woman, but l detest and have nothing but contempt for her. She does not deserve children.

Wasn't it a documented fact that her IQ was higher than the boyfriend's and she was observed as manipulative whereas he was quite passive?

Hmm she could have protected her children but she chose not to and to be 100% blunt her social background had fuck all to do with what happened to Shannon; There are many incidents of neglect perpetrated by educated and wealthy people against children, abuse of any description is not exclusive to the working class - The ignorance and snobbery of people to even suggest it!

She does not deserve sympathy or understanding, just like she never deserved those children, they are better without her!

No I don't have any sympathy I'm afraid...especially when I read about a mother who turned up the TV so she didn't have to listen to her little boy screaming whilst her boyfriend attacked him, I'll save my sympathy for the children I think..

No, sorry.

We live in a country where you can choose whether to have children or not. If you do, you should be able to protect them. If you can't, you shouldn't have them or should give them up.

I do feel sorry for people in abusive relationships, but once they bring children into it they just have to put the children first.

I have sisters who have been what I would call abusive to their children.

I have reported them to NSPCC and social services but apparently, it wasn't bad enough for anyone to intervene.

Drugs, violence, alcohol. Boyfriend after boyfriend moving into the family home. Neglect. They don't see the harm they are doing. They don't care. Their kids adore them, and that is all they need to convince themselves that they are good parents.

There is nothing to excuse them from the way they are. They both have very low self-esteem and seek out men who they think are more dysfunctional than they are because it makes them feel more 'together'. They do the same with their friends.

For instance, one has a friend who does crack, so compared to her, the weed smoking isn't so bad. One friend is an alcoholic, so their drinking doesn't seem to be a problem compared to them.

They don't want normal people in their lives because it just makes them realise how bad they are.

I used to have sympathy for them but when you realise that some people have no interest in helping themselves it becomes harder.

They are the sort of people who spout stuff like, 'I'd die for my kids', but the truth is they struggle to even get out of bed for them.

I think, as a society, we find it harder to accept that mothers are capable of this behaviour. It makes it even harder for the children of these women to speak up.

i'm friends with someone who was emotionally, physically and sexually abused by her father whilst her mother turned a blind eye 'because she didn't know how to protect her children'-

my friend chose not to become a mother herself even though she is in a very loving stable relationship and would, in my opinion, make a 'good' mum,

her partner seems sane, loving caring and would do anything for her, he is a fabulous uncle and again, in my opinion, would have been a great dad-

my friend's choice was set in stone by her own mother's decision not to leave, not to make her husband leave not to protect her children, even though she was herself in full time safe employment (nursing) and the welfare state at that time (60's/70's)was pretty robust.

was Shannon abused? apart from the drugged under the bed thing

What do you mean 'apart from'

This was a drama. It wasn't a documentary. I felt a kind of appalled pity for her, but that was a reaction to the way she was portrayed.

not I think I understand what you mean.

Its possible to have an understanding of how someone got to the point where they are unable or even unwilling to put their children first.
It is possible to feel sympathy for them as a child or young person treated so badly that they grew up into someone like Karen or Baby Peter's mother.
Its possible to feel sadness that another human being is so damaged and twisted by their life that they have no empathy for their own kids.

But you can still feel horror at what they have done, feel terrible for the victims of their crimes and agree that they should be punished for what they have done.

I know exactly how my DSs birth mother turned out the way she did. I remember her as a child and feel terribly sad for her as that child.
It doesn't' mean I can forgive what she has done to my DS or feel I owe her any leniency as the horrible adult she has become.

Lets face it, its only by trying to understand why these people do this stuff that we have any hope of stopping it happening again.

Exactly to PP
There is a line we have to draw when it comes to personal responsibility, and that line is when you are causing actual harm to your child.

My dad had an awful childhood at the hands of his father, my grandfather. The grandfather who then went on to abuse me. Who told my dad to abuse me. Who listened.
Yes, my father's childhood was bad, but so was mine and I manage not to abuse my daughter, or let her be abused by them. If I did, I'd consider myself a bad mother; ergo, my dad, and these similar parents, must also be bad parents if they do.

The cycle of abuse has to stop somewhere and if you are a halfway decent human being you will fight, run, do anything necessary to prevent them from being abused.

" apart from" meant I wasnt aware of years of abuse, no food, notes being sent

Do I feel sorry for women who cannot protect their children? No. There is no 'cannot'. These women choose not to.

No I don't feel sorry for them. They have a choice the children don't. They didn't ask to be born into a life of abuse. They need parents to stand up for them and not continually put their relationships before their children's wellbeing

More infantilising of women.

This thread wouldn't exist if she had been a man.

More infantilising of women.

This thread wouldn't exist if she had been a man.

Spot on, Dizzy. This thread is in really poor taste.

This thread isn't just about Karen Matthews. I know what she did was terrible.

Then perhaps you shouldn't have brought her or Shannon into your OP?

I repeat what I said on page one you need to get this thread deleted.

Why should I delete this? Worra I did mention her as I was watching moorside but my post was about any mother/father not just her in particular

Thread on here earlier where the mum was asking her child if he wanted to stay in the house with his abusive father and she didn't want to break up her 20 year marriage. Ffs, it's the child who counts, not your bloody marriage. I'm sure there's an awful lot more to it, but I hope I'd have the strength to LTB if my DH ever touched the DC.

I don't have much sympathy for Karen Matthews particularly but I do think it's much harder generally to break out of the cycle of abuse/deprivation than some people think. For someone to do that they have to not only have the strength to turn their back on the only life they've ever known, the only crutches they have (be that addictions, bad relationships or a quasi-support system of family / friends in similar situations) but they have to put trust in a system that they view with suspicion and in their experience or perception is biased / weighted against them. It's easy to say "help is available, you can call X or Y" but the leap of faith it takes to start engaging with authorities and organisations when you've been brought up to distrust The Establishment and with the creed of "we look after our own" shouldn't be underestimated.

Tbh I managed it 404. I did it because I love my daughter and I don't want her to be abused.
That is literally the only thing that matters when you are a parent.

""" apart from" meant I wasnt aware of years of abuse, no food, notes being sent""

User, the children were on the then "At Risk" register.

Under today's thresholds, the children would have been removed.

The Uncle would have been on the Sex Offenders register and both him and CM would have been classed as "A person who is a danger to children".

I didn't say it was impossible Rixera, just that it's harder than some people think.

That's fair, lots of people are black and white about it, that it must be easy to just drop abusive family. I had lots of 'why don't you just hate them' responses, but I don't think it should ever be seen as an excuse to continue the cycle.

It was difficult and I sympathise with those who had to detach from abusers to save their children but the thread is about ones who didn't do that and I don't sympathise with them at all, your suffering becomes secondary when a child is at risk.