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AIBU?

To feel a bit sorry for women who cannot protect their own children ?

81 replies

notmeagain0 · 16/02/2017 18:34

Don't get me wrong I could never let my children come to any harm but after watching moorside I can't help feel a bit sorry for Karen. She obviously should have protected poor Shannon but I think women like this can be so brainwashed by their boyfriends/ husbands and end up thinking what they are doing is ok. I obviously have no sympathy for the person who commits any crime to a child so don't want this post to appear that I do, just the mother who has been forced into it all

OP posts:

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Tomorrowillbeachicken · 17/02/2017 07:27

I feel sorry for he children. I had a rather crappy childhood where there was some violence towards me and I still can't understand why my parents didn't protect me (more so since I have become a mother myself).

puppysurprise · 17/02/2017 07:23

In this country? Yabu sorry but there is plenty of help. I'm not saying it's easy and unlimited and I understand how hard it is to leave an abusive relationship. I have a friend who keeps going back. No children though. Not protecting your own children - no excuse.

RainbowsAndUnicorn · 17/02/2017 07:20

I only feel sorry for the children, adults have choices children don't.

A parent letting the abuse happen is just as guilty as the one doing it.

Children are supposed to be our most precious family yet the amount of parents that put their own needs, wants etc first whilst the children pay for that is astounding.

c3pu · 16/02/2017 22:49

I had to get a court order cos my kids mum can't/won't protect them from harm.

Love and affection, yes. Food and clothes, yes.

Protection from sex offenders and drug dealers? Nah, that's a risk she's willing to take... Pity I feel a lot of, patience has run out though.

corythatwas · 16/02/2017 22:16

If Matthews' fault is that she "failed to protect" Shannon, who was she supposed to protect her from? As far as anyone knows, she was the main abuser here.

As far as I am aware her boyfriend was found innocent of any charges relating to Shannon (he served time for possession of indecent photographs but no suggestion of his having molested anyone). He was still very young, having entered the relationship as a young teenager, while Karen was a much older woman, so clear suggestion of grooming there. And the uncle, who was in on the abduction plan, had LD's. So who planned it if Karen didn't?

Is it at all conceivable that a man who had made a young vulnerable girl his girlfriend and then plotted with a relative of same girlfriend to drug and kidnap his own child would evoke reactions of pity?

Infantilising is right.

DJBaggySmalls · 16/02/2017 22:16

EightiethElement
"I'm pretty sure abusive men and women seek each other out."
NO. This isn't true.

Couples like Brady and Hindley most certainly do. They use compliance tests early on. They are an extreme, obvious example of something that happens on a smaller scale every day.

Rixera · 16/02/2017 22:15

That's fair, lots of people are black and white about it, that it must be easy to just drop abusive family. I had lots of 'why don't you just hate them' responses, but I don't think it should ever be seen as an excuse to continue the cycle.

It was difficult and I sympathise with those who had to detach from abusers to save their children but the thread is about ones who didn't do that and I don't sympathise with them at all, your suffering becomes secondary when a child is at risk.

PageStillNotFound404 · 16/02/2017 22:12

I didn't say it was impossible Rixera, just that it's harder than some people think.

Birdsgottaf1y · 16/02/2017 22:10

""" apart from" meant I wasnt aware of years of abuse, no food, notes being sent""

User, the children were on the then "At Risk" register.

Under today's thresholds, the children would have been removed.

The Uncle would have been on the Sex Offenders register and both him and CM would have been classed as "A person who is a danger to children".

Rixera · 16/02/2017 22:07

Tbh I managed it 404. I did it because I love my daughter and I don't want her to be abused.
That is literally the only thing that matters when you are a parent.

PageStillNotFound404 · 16/02/2017 22:05

I don't have much sympathy for Karen Matthews particularly but I do think it's much harder generally to break out of the cycle of abuse/deprivation than some people think. For someone to do that they have to not only have the strength to turn their back on the only life they've ever known, the only crutches they have (be that addictions, bad relationships or a quasi-support system of family / friends in similar situations) but they have to put trust in a system that they view with suspicion and in their experience or perception is biased / weighted against them. It's easy to say "help is available, you can call X or Y" but the leap of faith it takes to start engaging with authorities and organisations when you've been brought up to distrust The Establishment and with the creed of "we look after our own" shouldn't be underestimated.

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2017 21:59

Thread on here earlier where the mum was asking her child if he wanted to stay in the house with his abusive father and she didn't want to break up her 20 year marriage. Ffs, it's the child who counts, not your bloody marriage. I'm sure there's an awful lot more to it, but I hope I'd have the strength to LTB if my DH ever touched the DC.

notmeagain0 · 16/02/2017 21:55

Why should I delete this? Worra I did mention her as I was watching moorside but my post was about any mother/father not just her in particular

OP posts:

2014newme · 16/02/2017 21:52

I repeat what I said on page one you need to get this thread deleted.

WorraLiberty · 16/02/2017 21:49

Then perhaps you shouldn't have brought her or Shannon into your OP?

notmeagain0 · 16/02/2017 21:44

This thread isn't just about Karen Matthews. I know what she did was terrible.

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 16/02/2017 21:42

More infantilising of women.

This thread wouldn't exist if she had been a man.

Spot on, Dizzy. This thread is in really poor taste.

DizzyFizzyLizzy · 16/02/2017 21:38

More infantilising of women.

This thread wouldn't exist if she had been a man.

dontbesillyhenry · 16/02/2017 21:15

No I don't feel sorry for them. They have a choice the children don't. They didn't ask to be born into a life of abuse. They need parents to stand up for them and not continually put their relationships before their children's wellbeing

InTheKitchenAtParties · 16/02/2017 21:01

Do I feel sorry for women who cannot protect their children? No. There is no 'cannot'. These women choose not to.

user1484578224 · 16/02/2017 20:50

" apart from" meant I wasnt aware of years of abuse, no food, notes being sent

Rixera · 16/02/2017 20:44

Exactly to PP
There is a line we have to draw when it comes to personal responsibility, and that line is when you are causing actual harm to your child.

My dad had an awful childhood at the hands of his father, my grandfather. The grandfather who then went on to abuse me. Who told my dad to abuse me. Who listened.
Yes, my father's childhood was bad, but so was mine and I manage not to abuse my daughter, or let her be abused by them. If I did, I'd consider myself a bad mother; ergo, my dad, and these similar parents, must also be bad parents if they do.

The cycle of abuse has to stop somewhere and if you are a halfway decent human being you will fight, run, do anything necessary to prevent them from being abused.

TheFirstMrsDV · 16/02/2017 20:30

not I think I understand what you mean.

Its possible to have an understanding of how someone got to the point where they are unable or even unwilling to put their children first.
It is possible to feel sympathy for them as a child or young person treated so badly that they grew up into someone like Karen or Baby Peter's mother.
Its possible to feel sadness that another human being is so damaged and twisted by their life that they have no empathy for their own kids.

But you can still feel horror at what they have done, feel terrible for the victims of their crimes and agree that they should be punished for what they have done.

I know exactly how my DSs birth mother turned out the way she did. I remember her as a child and feel terribly sad for her as that child.
It doesn't' mean I can forgive what she has done to my DS or feel I owe her any leniency as the horrible adult she has become.

Lets face it, its only by trying to understand why these people do this stuff that we have any hope of stopping it happening again.

SukeyTakeItOffAgain · 16/02/2017 20:28

This was a drama. It wasn't a documentary. I felt a kind of appalled pity for her, but that was a reaction to the way she was portrayed.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 16/02/2017 20:25

was Shannon abused? apart from the drugged under the bed thing

What do you mean 'apart from'

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