Am I being unreasonable or is my sister?

[isitginoclock]

So a bit of a long one. My sister split up with her husband, around 3 years ago and moved back to the family home so she can be near family and have support. My dad died years ago and it's just my mum on her own. She's in good health but getting on a bit (76) and on the whole, in good health. She does love having them around and seeing her grandchildren every day, which is nice.
My sister came over to see us and stay last night as the kids are on half term. We were talking about family stuff and I can't remember how we got into it but I was just saying how sad it would be to sell the family home when mum died. She looked really shocked and basically said that she thought she was going to stay there and it would t be fair to kick her out of her home, and there was no way that she could afford somewhere else (she works as a teaching assistant at the kids school part time but mum pays for EVERYTHING else - food, clothes for kids, bills etc).
My husband and I were a bit shocked, as far as we were aware the will was that the house and everything was split 3 ways.
Can she contest it? Can mum change it (Even though it was dads will before he died).
I'm not being grabby... It's just the pronciple of the whole thing that she's assuming the house is now hers?
Does anyone know where we stand on this?

On the plus side (it's one of those things that won't really sound like a plus) if your DSis is staying there, your DM may not have to go into a care home if she deteriorates. And say she ends up being your DMs primary carer for 10 years, maybe that would entitle her to a larger share, or residence rights - she would effectively be saving your DM from having to sell her home to pay for her care.

Ladyflip

What a helpful post.

YANBU. Finding out what your relatives wishes are now while everyone is healthy and there's time to consider lots of possibilities is practical, and can be a very loving gesture. Your mother might find it very reassuring to know that her affairs are in good order, and that she wouldn't be leaving any practical, emotional or legal problems behind were she to get ill suddenly. Definitely have a conversation about it, and maybe suggest getting some legal advice. If your mother's priority is to provide a secure home for your sister for life, there's more to it than leaving the house to her, there's inheritance tax, and the ability to keep up with ongoing expenses like council tax and bills. Good luck!

My dd's uncles and aunts have a similar problem. Their only inheritance is a house, none of them have a lot of money and one of them has been living there for twenty odd years. I just hope that they can find the fairest solution that does not end up dividing them.

Wills are important. But if I was your DM at her age and healthy, I would not appreciate you bringing this up.

No. Best leave it till she's 90 and doddery and can't understand what she wants.

Do it now and sort out Powers of Attorney too so there are no nasty surprises for anyone.

Advising her to sort out will and power of attorney is fine. Saying I want the house sold and my share of the money, is not.

OP, I get it.

My DF died a few years ago when he was 68. His share of half the house was split between me, DS, DB and DM. Now DM owns 5/8 of the house and me and my siblings own 1/8 each. My DB lives in the house with my DM. Currently DM's will leaves her share to the three of us so we would then own 1/3 each. Over the next 30 years she could change it to leave her share to my DB or she might meet someone and leave it to a new partner or she might leave it to her dog.

Whatever happens my DS and I face the prospect of having to tell DB to leave the house whenever DM dies as we would want it sold. I am more negotiable on this as I am happy that my DB is looking out for my DM by living with her and taking a 'burden' off my shoulders but my DS is adamant that she would want her share as why should our DB live in a nice big house using 'her' money when she lives in a 1 bed shared ownership flat and could use the money to get herself something bigger (or buy the rest of her property). TBH she has grumbled about wanting her current share now but she doesn't want to upset our DM.

I am ignoring it all for now but I am so worried about what happens after DM dies. My DB, DS and I actually do get on and are quite close and I don't want a rift between us.

Hi, OP here. Thanks for all of your replies it's really helpful to have everyone's thoughts on this - from both sides. The three ways are between me, my sis and our brother. I have no idea whether was owned jointly or in common but it's not a massive posh estate and there aren't any step families so I assume it's just jointly owned. I know everything went to mum when dad died. Or I think it was "the event of the first death".

The only time we've ever brought up the future with mum is when she's initiated it, she's got very clear picture of things like DNRs, organ donations etc (watches too much casualty!) but there is so much that could happen care etc .

Thanks everyone - lots to think about.

I would have a quiet word with my mother about this. Not because I wanted to stake my claim to an inheritance, but because my sister may well be making life choices based on her assumption that she will inherit the house in toto; and this could completely screw up her future.

For example - if she assumes she'll have a house to live in, fully paid for, then she won't feel the need to increase her working hours, position herself for a better-paying job, retrain etc. She could effectively lock herself into a low-paid low-hours job and not be able to change careers on your mother's death. Whereas if she started planning for the future now, it could all be OK.

As has already been said, the house may need to be sold to meet care home fees long before your mother dies. The may be no inheritance for anybody. Your sister needs to see that as a very real possibility.

As I said, I would have a quiet word with your mother. She needs to know that your sister is not seeing staying with her as a stopgap until she can afford more independence, but that your sister genuinely sees this as a permanent state of affairs. Your mother would be best-placed to gently nudge your sister into e.g. looking for a better-paid job, getting some savings behind her while her living costs are subsidised by your mum, etc. Otherwise, she could be left high and dry should your mother need to move to a care home.

I was able to raise the issue of Powers of Attorney with my mum when my DMIL was suddenly left both widowed and with a dementia diagnosis. The living example of somebody she knew focused the mind and provided the impetus for her to do something.

The thing with Powers of Attorney is that if you leave setting them up until you need them then you have left it too late.

Good post whereyouleftit

To be completely honest, if I was your mum, I wouldn't want my daughter and grandchildren to lose their home in the event of my death, and as you already have a home I wouldn't have the same concern for you.
Not sure how you'd go about it though as equally i wouldn't want to leave one everything and the others nothing.
Happily I don't envisage it being a problem as I plan to piss all my wealth up the wall and save myself the problem. If they want a new conservatory they can pay for it themselves
But then, if one was living with me, especially with any vulnerability or children I would feel differently I suppose.
Ooh it's tricky isn't it

Grabby much???? Really! Your mum isn't even dead and already you are talking about contesting her will!
My sis isn't a home owner but I am. I know when my parents go the sensible option would be for her to move into their house. Because, well, erm I already have one!!!!!

Catch a grip.. there is more to life than fucking money!

Having these discussions when someone has died is too late. That's exactly how Wills get contested. Whilst some might see it as 'grabby', it's sensible for everyone to know the position. Fighting over money midst grief is a terrible thing which breaks families apart permanently.

It might not be right for some family set ups but knowing a persons wishes from funeral through to estate before the inevitable is a sensible idea and far more ideal.

Your mum isn't even dead and already you are talking about contesting her will

In all fairness the OP has never mentioned contesting the will.

It could be too that your mother is assuming that your sister will be moving on, and finding out that your sister has no intention of doing that could initiate a conversation about that.

Your mum could be here for another 20 years and not want to share her living space with your sister for that long. Or she might want to move to somewhere smaller or perhaps a warden controlled place. A lot of my parents friends have done that in recent years.

This isnt so much about inheritance but in your sisters assumption that she can live the rest of her life rent free, potentially at the expense of your mothers wishes. Your mum needs to know that that is the sisters plan. She is a big girl, she can stand on her own two feet and it sounds like its time she was made to.

If anyone is grabby here it is the sister!

Initially reading the OP my reaction was Oh no, I already have a house I would want my single parent sister and her dc to have the security we have. But actually people have made some very valid points.

As whereyouleftit says the sister may make life choices based on the assumption she inherits a home. Not only is that assumption a risk for her but (somewhat more selfishly) if this were my family and sis inherited the house in full that actually gives her a level of freedom and security that many of us could only dream of at this point in our lives.

In being mortgage free she may well have the choice to only ever work part time or to retrain to pursue a dream career, or maintain a great work/life balance whereas I and DH, like many others with a mortgage, need to work full time and have the usual stresses of juggling that with raising a family. I can see where that could breed resentment over time. I dont feel good admitting it but I think I'd find it hard feeling like my sibling was handed something on a plate that I had to continue to make sacrifices for.

There's also the real possibility that the currently better off/more secure sibling experiences changes in circumstances such as serious illness, bereavement, redundancy which may have a drastic effect on them financially.

Of course it's totally unreasonable that your sister should assume she can live in the house, rent free etc.

Can I gave some of what she's having, I'd love to check out of reality too

I almost wish that everything went to the state on the death of a person. Just to take the stress away.

Huge amounts of money are life changing and so it really matters who gets what. You can choose not to care but you can't say it makes no difference.

In this case the OP's mother is still young -ish. She may well live another 15 years and need care. And care eats away at a potential inheritance like you wouldn't believe.

I am now in a very similiar situation. DM died over a year ago and I am the executor of her will which simply split her estate (really only her house) equally between myself and three siblings. Like the OP my youngest sister had moved into the house two years ago as she wanted to live in the area and also return to full time education. She moved in with her DP and young son, DM wasn't too happy about it but at that stage she was quite ill and didn't have the strength to fight it. When DM died my sister wanted to stay in the house for another 2 years but my brother wouldn't have it. I asked him to let her stay for another year but now the year is up he is putting huge pressure on me to get her out and sell the house. My sister is now getting very aggressive with me as soon as I mentioned contacting an estate agent. I'm prepared to let her stay until June after her exams but my brother wants her out now and she is refusing to let me put the house on the market. I am now sick of the pair of them and can see losing contact with both of them as in their eyes I'm the baddie. Your DM may want to treat all her children equally so your sister may at some stage have to sort herself out. She's a grown woman responsible for her own family. Other posters have commented that it's fair she gets the house as the other siblings have houses but I assume you and your other sibling have paid and worked hard for your homes and you should not be made feel guilty for that. If your mothers wishes are to leave her estate equally amount you then your sister needs to think about standing on her own two feet.

We are all going to die some day. I would want my children to openly discuss something like this with me rather than let it fester and ruin their relationship and potentially lead to deep resentment and upset after my death. It's not grabby. It's normal to inherit off your parents in a stable and fair minded family. And if you grow up in such a family, that would be a perfectly normal and acceptable expectation. At the same time if there is nothing left due to the deceased parents need for care if wish for holidays, that is also not something a stable and fair minded child would ever have a problem with.

Oh and I'm answer to your OP, YANBU. Your sister is both relying on someone else to support her adult life AND potentially trying to take an inheritance that should be yours (assuming your mum loves you both and is fair) from you. Pretty shit if her.

The former is none of your business but the latter is most definitely your business.

Extremely similar situation in my dad's family (his sister was the one living with my gran, for at least 35 yrs before death, did lots of care for their mom before her death). Gran's will set up a trust so that Aunt can live in the house until death or moves out, before the house can be sold & proceeds divided up. The delayed inheritance will be difficult for some siblings.

IMHO, best to have it all arranged far ahead of time & not have surprises or unhelpful assumptions. Maybe it works in our family b/c my dad's sibling set (6 of them) are very close & loving, but not saints... plenty of runctions, too. We love each other in spite of many differences. Losing the house after losing Gran will be painful, too, will take some time to accept both, anyway.