Am I being unreasonable or is my sister?

[isitginoclock]

So a bit of a long one. My sister split up with her husband, around 3 years ago and moved back to the family home so she can be near family and have support. My dad died years ago and it's just my mum on her own. She's in good health but getting on a bit (76) and on the whole, in good health. She does love having them around and seeing her grandchildren every day, which is nice.
My sister came over to see us and stay last night as the kids are on half term. We were talking about family stuff and I can't remember how we got into it but I was just saying how sad it would be to sell the family home when mum died. She looked really shocked and basically said that she thought she was going to stay there and it would t be fair to kick her out of her home, and there was no way that she could afford somewhere else (she works as a teaching assistant at the kids school part time but mum pays for EVERYTHING else - food, clothes for kids, bills etc).
My husband and I were a bit shocked, as far as we were aware the will was that the house and everything was split 3 ways.
Can she contest it? Can mum change it (Even though it was dads will before he died).
I'm not being grabby... It's just the pronciple of the whole thing that she's assuming the house is now hers?
Does anyone know where we stand on this?

Fucking hell the pot woman is alive and kicking and healthy yabu for the thought crossing your mind.

Ye coz it makes so much more sense to leave these things undiscussed and become the cause of massive problems at an already stressful time.

If things are going to more complicated than the norm then it is much better for these things to be discussed and planned. Everyone is going to die so why not be prepared for it?

To be honest, as much as people don't like talking about this stuff, someone should broach this with your mum as it is her property that it concerns. She may have her own ideas about what should happen now that your sister is living there and the will could be altered to accommodate those wishes. It's too ambiguous to leave as it is, as clearly you had already both made assumptions.
We had a slightly different situation last year but it involved what was or wasn't said in a will. We asked the person involved to get it clarified, which they did so when, sadly, a few months later when the will came into force everyone involved knew clearly what was to happen. It's a tricky thing to bring up, but it has the potential to be a lot worse and cause rifts if you don't.

I have elderly parents and I would urge you to be very sensitive of your mum's feelings here. It can't be very nice for her to think about passing away - (she is still relatively young and in good health) or to feel that you are both going to be thinking that time may be coming soon or arguing over it. My dad has spoken to me a few times about his will, in his own time when he was ready to discuss it (when he turned 80 this year) and we had a practical chat. There are 4 of us so anything would be split 4 ways and any further issues we will deal with when the time comes. I understand these things can cause bad feelings in familes but you could be a long way off having these issues and many things could happen by then. Enjoy spending time now with your mum while her health is good - my mum has recently been diagnosed with Alziemers and I would give anything in the world to go back to the time when her health was good.

She needs to buy you out if the will leaves it to you no her jointly and you don't want her to simply have the place. I see your point, OP, but this could lead to a lot of acrimonious wrangling.

Macabre it may be, but sensible to have the discussion. I had the chat with my dad last night, at his instigation, about how to access his accounts/where his shares are. He's also told me his will leaves me and my sister everything 50/50. It saves having to wonder and cause any issues between us in future.

I am in this situation from your dsis's side (although I do pay my own way, not expecting parents to buy my dd's clothes, food etc.). Since ex-h left I don't earn enough to rent anywhere, so it was homelessness or move back in with parents. Both parents are still alive and not planning on going anywhere, however I am fully aware that when they do die, they've left their assets to be split 3 ways between me and other siblings (who knows, they may well have sold the house and spent the money before then). I couldn't afford to buy them out so me and dd will have to move if we hadn't already done so. Not a problem, we'll deal with it when the time comes. Your dsis is vvvvu if she thinks she has a claim on the house just by living in it.

I don't know what your dad's and mum's wills say so can't comment on that. It may be that your mum will leave the house to her, maybe not. But living there, contributing to the upkeep, paying for redecoration, caring for your dm etc. ... none of that will give her any claim on the house, it'll just be down to what's in the will.

We had this happen within our family and it tore everyone apart. Basically your mum can change her will to leave everything to your sister. TBH I think you would be best off not discussing it at present. Hopefully your mum is in good health and this will not be an issue for a long time by which sis might even have moved out or met someone new. Keep in good contact with your mum so you will be informed of any attempts to guit trip or pressure her into changing anything in the mean time tho. I think your sis is massively cheeky for what its worth!

It's really important to discuss this kind of thing NOW.
Power of Attorney, funerals, wills need to be organised before someone becomes ill and dies.
Waiting until there is a crisis, death or illness, only makes a traumatic situation worse. Saying you should wait is foolish. The worst time to sort things like this out is when emotions are raw.

Your Mum could have done anything to the will. I assume your father left everything to her and therefore, his is now immaterial.

There could be clauses allowing your sister to live there for x years. She could be the sole benefactor. You may receive cash and your sister the house. She may have given it to a local charity. It's entirely up to your Mum.

You sound a bit entitled and grabby. Your sister a little too but she's thinking about housing her family.

How do you feel about your Mum spending your inheritance feeding her grandchildren?

Contesting a will, assuming it was made in sound mind is disgusting. Wait and see what happens when your mother is dead before wondering about what benefit you'll get from it.

It isn't macabre. It's sensible and commonsense for wills to be discussed in a person's lifetime so as to limit potential for nastiness, resentment and argument on top of grief after death.

I totally disagree with the early posters. It is totally appropriate for your DM to sort out her will to her satisfaction, and in doing so allow everyone concerned to plan realistically for their futures.

It is also a good idea to think about power of attorney possibilities before rather than after someone becomes mentally incompetent to make decisions.

It's not macabre IMO. Most adult DC would be very upset to be treated differently from siblings in a parent's will, or for siblings to seek this.

Being fair doesn't always mean being equal. My mother is just about to buy my db, sil & dn a small house as they can't afford to rent anything near the good schools and wouldn't be able to get a mortgage or if they could only a small one. I've encouraged my dm to do this as I would like them living close by and don't think it's fair that my son will get to go to a good school and my nephew wouldn't. My mum brought up what would happen if she was to die suddenly (she is spending all of her savings on the house purchase as she's 61 this year so no point getting a mortgage and doesn't want to ask her dh for money). She was worried that she wouldn't be able to leave me an equivalent amount and maybe she should put the house equally in db & my names. I told her not to be ridiculous and that I would never ask them to move, it also wouldn't be fair to sil. Yes it would be nice to be given £200k but I have a house and they don't so it's not about the money.

I'm glad all the sensible planning-type people have turned up I was starting to wonder if DH and I are the only people in the country who think wills (and consideration of what's in said wills) is a good idea!!

More important than talk of what happens to the house is what happens to your mum? she needs to talk to you both about how she hopes to live in the longterm? would she eventually move into care if she needed it? what about when she can no longer manage stairs? does it have a downstairs bedroom?

will your sister care for her at home? If so, maybe she 'deserves' some recompense for this, it could be years?

all this needs discussing in terms of your mother living the next however many years (hopefully decades) and long before the idea of selling the house or not after her death.

Wills are important. But if I was your DM at her age and healthy, I would not appreciate you bringing this up.
I assume she will have made a will?Your DS children may be grown up and long gone before this becomes an issue.

I used to do this for a living and would totally agree that it is better to sort things out sooner rather than later.

If you aren't a family that discusses this sort of thing easily it might be a good idea to start by talking to your mother about power of attorney and her wishes on resuscitation etc. You might find a TV documentary or newspaper story to lead into it if you feel awkward about bringing it up. My parents are fit well and in their eighties but we have had the conversation, got all the paperwork sorted out and I have copies and know where the originals are as you never know what the future holds. (And in our family sudden death from cardiac/stroke is not uncommon.)

I agree about being upfront and clear and practical and having the discussions. I just think it needs to be handled in a mature and sensitive way. I have done the power of attorney recently and I am just aware of how sensitive it is and how it made my parents feel -they were quite sad to think about not being there and the family going on without them. But it was essential for us to get that done while my mum is still in sound mind to sign it. Everyone is different though and some people cope well with being practical and getting things arranged so there is no worry/hassle later on. Can the OP talk to her mum about it and see what she is planning?

i suppose how you deal with this sort of thing depends on your family dynamics. my view is that this is exactly the sort of thing that should be discussed and agreed upon whilst every one is calm, in good health and dying is a long way off. not waiting until someone needs substantial care or there is a quibble over a will.

we really do have an odd attitude to death as a society. its going to happen to everyone and isn't it better to have everything discussed and sorted. I am in my late 50's. my kids already know what my wishes are and how we are sorting finances. if god forbid something happened to me tomorrow, they would all know exactly what my wishes were in relation to long term care, burial etc.

it doesn't have to be a sensitive subject. far better to get it sorted now than have to do it all at a rush when everyone is fraught with emotion later on.

Its not macabre. more people should make and discuss wills with family while they are able to. The greatest gift you can give your dependents is to get your affairs in order.

But having a will and agreements about power of attorney, are very different conversations from - how much am I getting in the will? The former makes sense.

Surely when the house is sold your sister can spend her share on a deposit for a house of her own? By the time your mother dies hopefully you sisters children will have grown up and your sister can get a higher paid job and need smaller accommodation anyway.

YA both BU.

She's 76. She isn't that old.

She may well sell herself and move to a retirement community in five years.

I had my first will written up when I was 21 when I found out that if you don't have a will your estate first passes upwards to your parents. (As an unmarried person with no dependents.) And I was damned if my father was going to get anything, not that I had much to give!

Personally, I don't have a problem talking about wills, death, etc. It's a fact of life and doesn't have to be macabre. My siblings and I sat down with my mum when we knew her health was ailing and talked about any specific items people wanted. I really wanted a vase that my grandmother had bought, for example. When my mum did die there was no haggling, arguments or upset as it was already sorted.

YANBU to be somewhat shocked at your sister's presumption.

Your sister living in the house certainly changes whether the house would need to be sold for care home fees, as well as inheritance tax.

Your mother could choose to leave the house to your sister, or in trust for her to live in, or some such arrangement. I think that would be rather unfair when there are three of you, but of course it's her asset, so she has every right to do so.

However, if the will splits everything equally, you (and the third heir) would have the right to insist that the house is sold, that your sister buys you both out, or that she pays you rent.

Worth a conversation with your mother at some point, to avoid a nasty surprise for one of you if and when it comes to it.

Chances are YOU will not have to have that conversation with your DM as your sister will have beaten you to it.

I do agree with the others, it is an appropriate conversation if handled correctly. My mum is 83 and we talk about her wishes when she's gone - mostly instigated by her. In my experience, elderly people are well aware of what they are facing. But as others have said, 76 and in good health means you could be lucky enough to have a your DM for many many years to come.

You, your sister and your husband all sound very entitled to be honest; The discussion you're wanting to have is only appropriate to broach after your mother is dead, not before!

Errr no terrible idea. The conversation should be had before this even comes up so they can know what the mother's wishes are. People not being clear about inheritance etc. is one of the major causes of families tearing apart. Much better to have it absolutely clear.

In answer to OP's question its for your DM to decide (your DF's stake in the house would have automatically passed on to her when he died so it's now DM's house). If you're comfortably off I can imagine your DM might want to insist that your DSis can remain in the house until the children are older or leave home but this should all be written up with the help of a solicitor (e.g. who is going to be in charge of maintenance on the house) when exactly must the house be sold. If it was me and I was able to afford my own home and essential for my kids and Dsis couldn't I wouldn't want to evict her from the home just so I could get a windfall.