...to be actively avoiding the inlaws?

[Meepicheep]

Short answer is probably yes, but I'll give you a bit more detail.

DH and I met in the first year of university (18 years ago) and from the off my MIL didn't like me - because I'm Welsh. She could just about manage a polite conversation with me (I would occasionally visit during holidays) and then slag me off to the OH. Because he's awesome, he'd back me up. She doesn't like anything to do with Wales because her father drowned there when she was a little girl. I totally accept she probably has untreated PTSD from this and therefore a lot of tongue-biting has gone on over the years when she says things that show a lack of empathy for other people. When the OH asked me to marry him, the MIL and FIL refused to talk to him for a whole summer. BIL was supportive of my OH at the time and remains the same - backing up my DH when my inlaws claim they were never horrible to him.

So, we bumbled along for two years at university. In the third year, because of rising rents, the OH lived with me and my parents. Inlaws were happy with this arrangement as it saved them money.

In the January of the third year we decided to set a date and the first date we could get was November. Excited, I went to buy a wedding dress and the OH spoke to his parents about the wedding. Their reply was basically "don't care, don't approve." I tried to talk to my future MIL around end of January about the wedding dress (it was a bargain, she loves saving money) and she very literally turned her back on me and walked out of the room.

Not long after this the OH was told I wasn't good enough for him because I came from a benefits family. Both my parents had worked, my mother giving up to be a SAHM and my father taking early retirement to become her carer when she developed MS (I was about 17). So, yes, we were on benefits - but so what? I'd made it to uni (though I lived at home) and both me and the OH were lined up to do teacher training the year after graduating.

Roll forward to September. We have actively tried to engage the inlaws in all discussions - asking them if we can book them a hotel, explaining that it was a cold buffet (all my parents could afford), asking what type of flowers they liked - she in particular was great at changing the subject. In September we gave them a copy of a weddin invitation as a keepsake. They said that was the first time they realised we were serious and would make it 'if they could.' Do I need to add that they were quarter of an hour late to the church and went home before the evening do?

Still, to this day, they will argue that they didn't find out until September and would have liked to be more involved - which is BS. We tried. I even showed her the design for the invites and she blanked me.

We gritted our teeth an cracked on with things. My mother got progressively worse and ended up in a nursing home, with Dad facing huge bills (social security at time were rubbish and he was told to sell the house to cover the nursing care which made him homeless - and yes, I did point out he shouldn't). He got a small flat. My mother in law's reaction? "It would be better for everyone if she was dead, really, wouldn't it?" On Christmas Eve. At a family Christmas I hadn't wanted to go to.

Well, the MIL got her wish and my mother died not long after. The same week we were burgled. So, not a great time. Zero help there, but the inlaws did attend the funeral the third and last time they spoke to my dad).

There's other stuff too - insisting that we spend Christmas with them or they sulk, epically. Trying to play happy families by insisting on family holidays every Easter (and until I couldn't take it any more, every August too) on the basis "we're paying you should be grateful" and always booking the place before asking us. Yes, we could have pre-empted and said no, but the backlash about how we (I) had split up the family was rarely worth it.

By now, about nine years into marriage, the inlaws had stopped being openly hostile about me and things calmed down. There was a happy pretence of happy families and we'd see them every month (my father would see us a little less frequently as we live closer to inlaws, an accident really due to where my first teaching job was). I got pregnant - so, yey, first grandchild and all that and was due on 25th July. A few weeks later they said "hope you don't mind but we've booked a holiday for the 23rd as we will save 200 quid on the holiday." What can you say at that point? They'd paid in full and logic says baby could be late or early. The OH was really hurt but by now we were well used to having to do things by ourselves.

On the evening of the 22nd, my DS was born and not to put too fine a point on it, I nearly died. I lost 2 litres of blood and my blood pressure kept dropping - it took until 9 in the morning to stabilise and doctors told us later they'd sent the OH home to sleep "because they fully expected him to be looking after a newborn alone." Cheery thought. Anyway, he called his parents to tell them they were now grandparents and that he was worried about me - he's not an idiot, he knew something was up.

His dad complained he'd woken him up early, that they didn't need to be up for two hours.

Their home, the hospital I was in and the airport are located in such a way that they could have made a half hour detour to see their grandson (maybe comfort their son?) before heading off on holiday.

The thought didn't even cross their minds.

When their flight was delayed by thirteen hours - thank you, karma - they kept calling OH up to complain about it (meanwhile I'm having blood transfusions and can't move in the background). They also blamed my DS for turning up early as to why they couldn't come and see him.

DS is now five. In the interim the BIL has got married (triggering another argument with inlaws about our wedding) and the BIL and new wife have had a baby. Our DS is not neglected by grandparents and they babysit for us twice a year (sometimes Valentine's Day or thereabouts and usually around our anniversary).

However.

MIL has become more vocal about things she doesn't approve of. She's always been racist - e.g. she would cook a curry and while we're eating she would come out with "better than those immigrants cook, don't know what they put in it." She also thinks that the Jews play up the Holocaust too much and that "it was so long ago they should just forget it now."

We of course argue - but it's genuinely pointless. There is a non-negotiable - she's entitled to hold those (vile, horrible) views but she is not to express them in front of her grandchildren (BIL and SIL agree with us).

Of course the MIL and FIL voted Leave and we voted Remain (I'm not going to argue that all Leave voters are racists, that's just stupid, but MIL is an example of one who is). Cue the FIL shouting at my DH that he's a traitor and stupid for voting Remain.

There was an apology and eventually some sort of platitude about how 'it will be alright' and not to worry about our jobs (both have left teaching, both of us are reliant on the EU not falling apart).

Meanwhile MIL has announced that she thinks I've done well losing weight since DS was born (I know, I was shocked) and that running clearly worked because "you put on too much weight with DS really."

Actually I didn't - was size 12 when I got pregnant and size 14 after about eight months post birth. There was a period of PND (couldn't exclusively breastfeed - milk never kicked in properly so DS was combination fed) so I did fill out to size 16 after that. And lost the weight again - but actually, who cares? I was healthy during pregnancy and had a 9lbs skinny baby.

I'm (finally) pregnant again. At 24 weeks I had a bleed and bizarrely spd kicked in during hospital stay. FIL picked up DS one day from school and announced "can't see you going much longer, you're huge now." Actually I'm in size 14 maternity clothes, but thanks for that. Thanks for saying I'll have a massively premature baby. Though I've had to rely on other people, friends and other mums when I can't do the school run, we've decided not to ask inlaws again. It's not worth the background comments about my weight. Even on Christmas Day the MIL turned around with "well people didn't know I was pregnant with your BIL until the month before he was born."

Baby bump two is now huge (7 months) and tbh I don't want to see my inlaws. All the unnecessary nastiness, the thoughtless comments, it's not worth it. The midwife has said I'm measuring correctly, I'm healthy, she doesn't think I'm massively overweight at all. OH has taken DS to visit grandparents. I was 'tired' that weekend and in any case he was going out with friend and it was nice for them to get some alone time with grandson.

After all the stuff we've let them rant about in the past, it sounds petty to say I can't be bothered with them for the next nine weeks. But I really can't - I'm so tired of all this, and of them. Don't want the background stress or bitchy comments any more. And certainly not for the next two months!

Why are these people in your life AT ALL? That's a serious question, it really is. Why?

Yabu not to have emigrated to a distant country a long time ago. Still, what's done is done, no use crying over spilt milk, etc etc.

Yanbu to avoid them for as long as you like.

I read this with my jaw on the floor to be honest - they just took against you from the get go because of something that happened years ago in Wales and was nothing to do with you! However, they sound the sort of people where 'nobody is any good for my son' and anybody would have had the same treatment, i bet, they just would have latched onto something else. My own MIL is very difficult, but not on this scale, they both sound completely unhinged. I would avoid as much as possible, your dh is clearly not like them at all - just send him and the oldest child to visit and stay away as much as you can get away with. You sound so lovely and really made an effort and they have made zero effort, just made nasty comments and clearly not at all interested in your welfare at all ( moaning about their delay at an airport when you were so poorly, who thinks like that?) A lot of other folk would have given up on them years ago. Its hard when its family, i guess we all think people might change or things will improve, but generally they dont. No real advice, going no contact isnt easy either, but for your own sanity you should try to.. They are the losers at the end of day as the children wont want to go and visit when they are older either - children pick up on bad vibes.

Why are you still bothering with them after all these years of bad treatment? You know by now that they will never treat you as you would like them to

Dear God, they're awful. I think I'd go NC because of the way they were about your mum, let alone everything else. What's wrong with people?? You sound great, and the PILs should be grateful you've kept in touch with them as long as you have. Congratulations on the pregnancy btw.

PS, good luck with the second baby. I hope it goes well for you .
concentrate on the children - they are way more important in life than those two ever will be.

Hi Sparkletastic - we are both trying not to be 'the bad guys' by cutting off contact between them and their grandson, but my husband isn't so attached that he'd sacrifice our family to maintain contact with them. He long ago accepted he wasn't the favourite son, that nothing he does is good enough for them and, therefore, when they have repeatedly pushed too far he's started to care less and less (which then makes him feel guilty, as he feels he has a duty to care for them).

The trick is to disengage from your PILs so that they have the least negative impact on your DC without the break having too much impact on the relationship they may have with your OH. It sounds like your DH doesn't agree with them, so that should make it easier. Using practical excuses such has "its not convenient", "I'm tired" "we're going to be out/away/" whenever they suggest a visit is much less confrontational than imposing a complete break.

But I also think you might find it helpful to change your expectations about them. For example, they sound like they've pretty much been horrible from the beginning, yet there still seems to be something in you that 'needs' them to be nice, to come to your wedding, to make nice comments about your parents, to come and see you newborn at the hospital, to not tell you you've put on weight when pregnant. They sound like they will never do that. Would it be easier for you if you just accepted that they are difficult, judgemental people and always will be. Then you can stop emotionally investing in trying to make them approving and kind and emotionally invest in some other really nice people, BIL, SIL, or some relations on your family's side to fill the gap for your DC.

Yanbu they sound awful.

Re the baby bump comments, I got them from about 14 weeks pregnant. Was size 10 maternity clothes in the end and measuring spot on.

YANBU. They're a pair of cunts.

Jeez, they sound unhinged! I would back right away from any contact with them at all frankly - neither you, your DH nor your kids need that sort of thing in their lives. Back off now before they start on your kids with their horrible attitudes

Meepi, how you've managed to keep your cool, is beyond me.
They sound incredibly predictable, and ultimately draining.
Could you relocate at some point, put a bit of distance between you all.
The MIL, sounds quite poisonous.

Yadnbu they sound like lunatics. Avoid as much as possible.

Saphirestrange - your comments never fail to disappoint me lol :-)

Hi Skooba - this is the problem, you can be having a perfectly normal conversation with them and then get blindsided by a comment. As for the Referendum vote, they brought it up when DH had dropped in on a duty visit and while he'd expected some gloating, he wasn't expecting his dad's reaction.

Please give examples of how they benefit your children by being in their lives.
Seriously. They are racist and aggressive. They show blatant dislike for you. They will absolutely show your children that you are not to be respected and that you are less than everyone around you, so why should your children treat you with any decency?

"we are both trying not to be 'the bad guys' by cutting off contact between them and their grandson, but my husband isn't so attached that he'd sacrifice our family to maintain contact with them. He long ago accepted he wasn't the favourite son, that nothing he does is good enough for them and, therefore, when they have repeatedly pushed too far he's started to care less and less (which then makes him feel guilty, as he feels he has a duty to care for them)."
You really need to rethink your priorities here. Who would actually care if your parents tried to paint you as the bad guys? Who would believe them? And why would you inflict this toxic pair on your innocent child? If they can treat their son so badly, they can do the same to their grandson. Don't kid yourself the'll never drip poison in his ear. And don't think your child won't notice granny and grandpa being horrible to mum and dad. Don't put your children through this.

I'd have binned them long ago, after the comment about your mother. Seriously, they sound toxic and horrible.

They sounds very narcissistic. Rewriting history. Always about them. You've got spd. I don't know how bad it is. But with them, milk it. And slowly lower contact. You don't have to be nc as you sound as if you'd prefer the gps around just not very much.

They sound absolutely awful, and the rest of your family have had the patience of saints with them. They don't deserve you.

They sounds very narcissistic

Arrrrrgh.

What Whereyouleftit wrote in its entirety.

You were fortunate enough to come from an emotionally healthy family, your DH has not been so lucky (understatement). The rule book of familial relations really does go out the window when it comes to dealing with dysfunctional families.

The best thing you can really do for yourselves is to keep your children well away from his parents; they were not good parents to him and they will be toxic as well to your children. The damage to them will really be done right in front of your very eyes.

Your ILs sound like an absolute nightmare and nobody would blame you for going NC. As for what they say to others, they've obviously got form for this and I doubt they'd be believed. It all reflects badly on them, not you.

Your poor hubby is piggy in the middle and I don't envy either of you. Some people aren't worth the aggravation and they sound insufferable.

As for the drowning, to have a downer on every Welsh person is bonkers.

I would probably have grinned and borne it until the comment about your mother. Unless there was massive, massive grovelling and apologies after that, I would never speak to her again. Never.

Yanbu to go low contact, practice deflection for when you do see them to avoid confrontation.

However your enormous OP covering 18 years suggests that you need to let some of this go, you don't like your MIL, that's fine but now that you have put all this into writing the OP could you put some of it rest?

Look to the future, you have a lovely DH, 2nd little on the way, enjoy this time, don't wait for your PIL to misbehave but get your DH to pull them up when they do.