Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

Are you kidding me?!?!?! My mum has worked since the 1950s when she was 15 years old and now only gets state pension of £6,000 per year!!!!!!!! And yes, I'm serious SIX THOUSAND!!!!

YANBU, but I see there's the usual, 'It's because of mobile phones and flat screen tellies and mod cons! Back in my day . . . ' Yep, we know, no one had those things because they didn't fucking exist.

State pension is indeed about that level. Mine will be about £125 a week ( I did a recent check) and I will work until I die.

I would certainly support shifting the winter fuel allowance and pensioner free travel only to those over 85 and ditto the TV licence to shift a bit of the burden to the older but not quite old pensioners to help younger families. Having a straight cut off is easier to administer than a means test.

We also don't consider what the old do for the young in this. I have no pension other than state because I've given that to the older children to help with housing and my savings.

I agree with an "age testing" rather than means testing. Means testing is ridiculously unfair on those with a small pension.

In Italy everything is means tested. Hence great moaning that there are a fair few people who have never earned or saved a penny being better off than those with a small pension who have to pay for doctor/dentist/x-rays etc etc.

They were born and started their careers in a different time. My father left school after doing A-levels (well, their equivalent) as he couldn't afford uni and did all sorts of jobs before getting into a career which would nowadays only be accessible at the bottom rung with a degree. He and mum bought our family home for way, way less than a developer would now buy it for so they could tear it down and start again.

I don't begrudge them that, but it is annoying when mum starts harping on about saving money this way, that way so we could buy a house or whatever. Things are different now, living off baked beans for a year (like they did) won't get young people with their equivalent qualifications a house here.

If some/many are better off than working families it's very likely often because they've paid off their mortgage, have no childcare costs, and no school age kids constantly needing mountains of food/ clothes/shoes /pocket money/holidays/driving lessons/music/ballet/swimming lessons/school trips/phones/computers, etc.

But there are still pensioners who are very hard up, as I saw when doing voluntary work locally. Most of them were older pensioners, 80+, but sometimes going into their flats was like something from a bygone era, and it was always the ones who were apparently the hardest up who would try to give me a pound for my petrol.

I think was was easier to get a good start in life for today's pensioners and they are reaping the rewards of this today. They didn't have the rental and housing costs families and student debt people have today. There were more opportunities to train on the job and move up the ladder even without qualifications. Companies offered pension schemes and benefits that were far more generous than the meagre auto enrolment pension employers had to be forced to pay into today.

I think the idea "worked hard" has a bit more to do with workplace conditions. Most 80 yr old men worked labour intensive industrial jobs with little health and safety regulations.

I think so. Worked hard, been prudent with their pension contrubutions, don't have kids bleeding them dry & have paid off their mortgages & getting letting income too from a second house. Not surprised in the slightest

DM hasn't 'worked hard all her life'. I've already been working more years than she has. Graduated with debt/had to work through it to support myself. She abandoned her 2 children to go off and study, never came back for us. Took early retirement after working for 20 years. Final salary pension, so very generous.

Bought her council house cheap (3 bedrooms 'for when her DCs came to stay' ), sold it for a huge profit, bought another house, sold it for a huge profit then downsized to a 1 bedroom new build when she had grandchildren so no 'free childcare' there!

She now spends her retirement online shopping, going on holidays, making use of her free travel card for daytrips with her other similarly fit/wealthy friends.

She's having a great time. I work full time, she criticises me for not getting someone in to do jobs round the house/not being able to visit more often. She's never even had the experience of being a working mum, as she left us in order to start a career. I am, at times, resentful (but then, I do have 2 wonderful children who love me lots, so maybe not!).

I don't mind so much that pensioners are so well off (at least inasmuch as it's down to the state pension increasing, meaning that the poorest pensioners are being pulled out of poverty) but it does wind me up when people trot out the "we worked hard" argument. Why won't people acknowledge they've had a bit of luck in their lives too? I don't get where the fun is in feeling hard done by, I'd much rather think I was a jammy bugger. (Which I was, to a point - got a grant to go to uni and made some money off the London property market. As a result we'll be able to help our kids quite a bit when they're older, thank Christ, because I don't know how you're supposed to live now when the average home costs 6 times the average salary. But I really feel for the kids who're coming from the same sort of background as me.

Why do people want to pitch young against old?

Surely it makes more sense to talk about the eight families that own half the world's resources and the other so many families that own nearly all the rest.

IMHO the wealth of the world is getting more and more concentrated in a few hands, so naturally us normal people are getting poorer as that process continues. It is not the fault of old Mrs Brown who lives down the road, is it?

toomuch, i do agree with you.

Why do people want to pitch young against old

^ this.

Plus pensioners aren't a homogenous mass. Those in their late 70s and 80s for eg could very well have had a very different upbringing to those in their 60s.

piglet , good point. My brothers are 12 and 15 years older than me and had the benefit of cheaper housing, good pensions, job security but they are only in the 60s range. My older brother is 67 and still working, has a small mortgage etc, he doesnt claim to be wealthy , but he admits he has it easier than his girls just now and he does appreciate the opportunities that they had then to get out to work and become homeowners etc.
They are grateful , but a lot are not and just prefer to moan.
The media are whipping this up - i think its just an agenda for the government to start means testing everything, which some say might be a good idea. who knows? ( it is certainly pushing the whole ' they are better off ' bit, when a lot are not.

Doesn't bother me. The only slight issues I have are bus passes and heating allowance not being means tested. High income pensioners don't need these and I'm not sure how much they cost overall. I assume high income pensioners don't use buses often though.

I don't really care what other people have asset and income wise. As
Long as I am ok when the times comes which I have made sure I will be.

Tell that to the pensioners who can't afford to have the heating on!

Gettinglikemymother - not all is as it seems, though, regarding elderly "poor pensioners". Friend of mine is a financial adviser and he visits many pensioners in their homes. He said he was astounded that he goes into shabby unheated houses where he is offered a plain digestive, and when he looks at their savings they have hundreds of thousands! Yet still they plead poverty and say how expensive everything is.

In fact pil were a bit like this and everyone's eyeballs fell out when we saw how much money they had yet they had been playing the poor pensioner card for years. The money has nearly all gone on care now, and they could have flippin' helped their dcs out a bit when they could

Why do people want to pitch young against old?
Ah, because that's how the elite stay in power and in wealth....
Divide and Rule.
As long as we the plebs are pitched against each other we'll never be turning our attention to the elite and actually doing something about the very, very few that own the world's resources.

I don't resent it at all. They worked hard and knew what poverty and hard work were!! No child tax credits in those days!

Ok, so a few own the world's resources, and some corporations avoid tax, but what I see is Brian and Brenda next door retired at 60 with a new jag setting off on yet another cruise when we are probably going to be working to support them when we are 70 and they are sprightly 90-year-olds.

There is certainly poverty among pensioners and it's a generalisation to say they are all better off. I would rather see winter fuel allowance and free travel being means tested in some way so that those who really need it get more. I have family who are extremely wealthy and get these benefits they don't need while some people can't afford to put the heating on or feed themselves probably. The gap between the haves and have nots is definitely wider than it has been before.

Dthey didn't necessarily work harder for it. They were lucky.

What I dislike is that many are very selfish. That's have not a clue how it is to work very hard for so little.

The I'm alright Jack generation.

Part of the problem is a lack of industrial jobs, outsourcing to third world countries.

Naze- don't have kids bleeding them dry.....Indeed....my parents gave me nothing and I learnt that anything I want I have to earn and work for.

Some kids are totally spoilt now and expect it.