Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

My dad is reasonably well off and when my fil dies recently he had a lot of money in the bank, but like others have said they worked hard all their lives and saved. My parents managed on one household income ( my mum only worked briefly for a few years), lived frugally ( very few foreign holidays or meals out etc) and got no help from the state except child benefit. My dad doesn't really need his bus pass or winter fuel allowance but accepts them anyway because why not. He owns his own home and saved towards a decent occupational pension all his working life. if he hadn't he would be claiming housing benefit now and pension credits like many poorer elderly people.

Out2pasture It's called free trade and it keeps prices down. Please don't tell me you want tariffs and protection back.

Most will have worked hard and saved so they can enjoy their free time without worrying about food or heating costs.

The problem we have is that so many expect the lifestyle they want with the means to afford it. So many give little thought as to the cost of children, one parent not working etc and blame it all on employers and the state rather than the choices they made.

The "baby boomers" didn't work any harder than younger generations have: the wealth is circumstantial. the argument that they "worked hard" so "deserve it" implies that circumstances are now the same (which they're not) and that low paid people are lazy.

The working conditions in the pulp and paper industries, mining, rail lines was dirty and dangerous.
My father born in 1930, worked as a merchant marine down in the steam plant. When he returned home (every 6-9 months) he was tanned. I thought from sunning on deck between the USA and Vietnam. Years later I found out it was heat induced....cooked like a slow roast chicken from the engine room.
He worked "rolling fours" four hour shifts around the clock.
Those conditions mean "hard work".

Until my dad passed away recently (widowed 8 years previously
) he was in a comfortable position receiving around £1600 a month net. I was always that he was also given the winter fuel payment, no questions asked. I do think that should be means tested.

I'd love to work a white collar job and retire at 60 with a nice pension.

Oh wait, it's not available to me. That's the difference!

Instead I'm a graduate with limited job opportunities. And I will probably work until I'm 70.

Great.

Yes, please bring back terrible, dangerous working conditions, we really need more 'hard work'.

That'll learn 'em, bloody yoof of today

Well they certainly wouldn't be complaining about the terminology or the pension benefits of said industrial pension plans.

12% interest rates on a mortgage of £5k... hardly comparable.

My own parents were born in the 40's. Spent 5k on our house, retired in early 50's with lump sums in six figures, and public sector pensions. MiL was the same.

They didn't fight in the war, they had grandparents on hand to help out with childcare, and will be retired for hopefully 40 years on final salary schemes. They were not all up mills and down mines. And no, they don't 'get it' either.

The only thing that bothers me is the wealthy pensioners I know (who all own cars) get free bus passes, but my DC no longer get a free school bus, and are lucky there is a bus at all. I would love to have a free bus, but I bet they'll no longer be a think when I retire.

Apart from that, I don't begrudge anyone being comfortable in the later years of their life.

I think plenty of people would like more manual work. Not work with dangerous conditions, that goes without saying, but it is a great shame that we live in an age where brawn is becoming superfluous (quite a few exceptions, of course). It's funny to think that the industrial age will actually cover quite a short period of time in the grand scheme of things. No doubt we'll all be back to mediaeval peasants keeping a hog before too long (and fending off the Black Death).

I know, LynetteScavo. Ds's bus pass to sixth-form college was £675/year. Phewwph. I don't begrudge an elderly person a bus pass, but the bus round here is full of grinning 60-somethings jogging up the stairs to get the best seats on the top deck.

Ive been waiting for a thread like this to appear again. I knew it wouldnt be long.

Two weeks ago my DH who is 67 next month recieved his invitation to apply for PIP.

Those born after 8th April 1948 are being moved from DLA to PIP. PIP means they will have to fill in forms and be reassessed and reassessed year after year. We will be seeing ppl in their 70s and 80s keep being retested. And being forced to attend assesments.

The "pensioners are not bearing any of the cuts" "pensioners are being left alone" is an MN myth.

And last night this thread appeared on the Chat board.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2853157-Does-anyone-know-anything-about-DLA-and-transfer-to-PIP-for-over-65s

My DH had a workplace pension too Babyroobs.

Then the company went bust the pensions section was taken over by another company and DH gets a very small payment each week.

DRIVINGMEBONKERS you must know a lot of different pensioners to me....most l know think twice before putting the heating on in their flats and mostly modest houses....over the years l have helped several pensioners widowed and struggling to keep a tiny garden tidy or cook a meal.......

My parents worked until over 70, rarely spent on themselves and are now living on 12K in the South East...

I was around when the miselling of pensions scandal happened, and few were compensated. Instead many paid into private pensions and got back way less than they had put in. Pension schemes also did not used to be protected. It was after Murdoch raiding the pension scheme that legal protections were put in place. If your workplace went bust in the past, your pension disappeared.

Well I have just retired! My civil service pension plus my government pension do not cover my outgoings, I have had to retire at age 65 due to health reasons otherwise I would be still working. Fortunately DH still works , however he is in the building trade so physically we don't know how much longer he can go on.
When we were a "hard working family" there were no working tax credits , no housing benefit, or subsided nursery places.
When DH retires we will have to sell our house to be able to live. (the house we could only afford to buy with an interest only mortgage, after years of renting)
Don't believe everything you read in the press!

I started work at 15, had three jobs in order to save for a deposit on a house with my then boyfriend who had two jobs. No holidays (ever). No phone, no car till I was 22 then an old banger for years. Still drive around in an 18 year old Volvo and tend to holiday mostly in the UK. We have good pensions because we SAVED for them. We didn't change our car every couple of years. We bought a three piece suite and used it for 25 years. Its a question of lifestyle. If you save your money and live within your means you will be surprised what you can do. Its about priorities and we prioritised getting a house and paying off the mortgage rather than nice cars, nice clothes and expensive holidays. We are now comfortably off and it really upsets me to see this Intergenerational outfit trying to demonise people who have worked hard for years. I helped my elderly mum out until she died as she had minimal pension and we will probably help our daughter out a bit when she gets her house - for which she is saving hard and again has worked since she was 16 despite being at school until she was 18. Often it is an attitude of mind. No one is prepared to wait for things any more they want it now but it has no value and they don't look after it. I'm very concerned about this Intergenerational group. They hate anyone older than themselves - take a look at some of the posts on there. I don't know why the BBC give them airtime (oh yes perhaps I do). I'm just waiting for them to say we should all commit harri carri at 75 to make room for them.

For those wishing there were more manual jobs (why?) my son says they cannot get people who will stay - he's a post man. In fact they recruited a lady over 60 with physicla health problems and not surprisingly she only lasted a few weeks. he think they should get potential recruits a fitness test as a lot of people (women he says) have started and had to stop quickly after and they end up repeatedly being under staffed until someone else can be found. My grandfather left school at 12. Life has been hard for many people in most generations. Most mumsnetters would not work until they went into labour and return to work full time when the baby was 2 weeks old as I did and always work full time.

Even my father worked full time until he was 77.

However the studies show a bit of a pro - old people current bias which we need to correct a little - that's all.

I would suggest merging tax and NI for everyone which yes would hit pensioners as they don't pay NI on pensions or investment income currently but it might be fairer. It would also not hit those just on a state pension as their income is not large enough to pay tax on as under £11k a year.

Hard work does not necessarily equate to having money. I know loads of people through my job that don't work hard but have shitloads of cash. Taking risks can earn you lots more money than working down a pit or in the civil service for 40 years.

Most people don't take risks though. They accept that their life will be hard work, probably quite dull and a pension at the end if they are lucky.

As for bus passes - if you have money and therefore most probably a car, who would choose to go on a bus?

My in laws (born in'47) got a mortgage on a brand new 3 bed detached bungalow aged 21 on one electrician's salary. MIL was a SAHM to one child. They did a have a tough few years but they were time rich. They sailed, went diving and managed several holidays in Plymouth Germany and Scandinavia whilst covering the mortgage. My MIL is the most entitled person I have met. They inherited twice from their parents who really worked hard and saved.

My aunt retired at 50 from a 7 hour a day job in a high street bank. She is living very comfortably 25 years on in a 3 bed detached house in the nice part of town. My aunt inherited from my grandparents.

Another aunt has done very well as she worked FT when her kids were little. Free child care from great aunt 5 days a week. They bought manky houses for cash and rented to students.

My parents have a higher income now as pensioners than when they were working. They worked hard but made some bad choices and frittered money away. The got away with it due to pensions.

It's no so much that I mind, some recognition of their luck would be nice though. They had harder childhoods than their children but have lived to see huge rise in living standards. Their children are seeing a fall and that will take some adjustment in expectations.

My mum retired back in December 2015 after 50 years working in factories. Shes 81 this month.

She was one of the many conned into paying "half stamp" decades ago.

It is a blip, not a trend. A combination of a number of coincidences, rises in house values, decent full employment during the seventies eighties and nineties for many people, better occupational and private pension opportunities, often two incomes as more women worked during that time. Added to that the fact that many pensioners are STILL WORKING, so should really be seen as working people of pensionable age.

The worrying thing is that the government will say this is a continuing trend (it won't be) and tweak things like the triple lock which will seriously damage the pension prospects for tomorrow's pensioners. Many of whom, like over 20% of today's pensioners will be dependant on state pensions since they don't have a private or occupational pension.