Pensioners now better of than working families - is this right?

[TeaCake5]

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households

What do you think? I think that this is going to cause more resentment in the medium term.

12% interest on £5000 mortgage WAS a lot in relation to income back then

This is very true but high interest rates are accompanied by high inflation, including wage inflation, this shrinks a mortgage very quickly so the pain of expensive repayments doesn't continue for so long.

I think we are taking our eye of the ball here anyway. We should all be expecting the retirements pensioners have now. The real culprit here isn't currant pensioners spending all the money, or even government generosity, it's corporate greed. Have a look at how much workers were paid out of company profits years ago compared to how much the top management took, then compare that to today.

Yes with our state pensions, my DP and I who are in our 50s will get nowhere near 34k retirement. I don't begrudge that, but it is wrong to think that is not a very good pension.

Another point about women of this age group. I think they would actually have worked LESS hard than any subsequent or previous generation. Generations below them would be much more likely to have to work full time AND do most of the domestic work and childcare. Women of the previous generation would have been doing all the domestic work and childcare but without the benefit of machines, like washing machines, like they had, to do all the heavy lifting for them.

There are plenty of younger working families currently on mortgages of 7% or so, on properties of between £100,000 to. £300,000, on salaries between £20k and £30k, due to struggling to raise the deposits required.

Not that incomparable to a 12% mortgage on £5000 a year, on a £12,000 to £14,000 house...

A lot of the 2-4% mortgages will only be unlocked if you have a deposit of around 30%. That's about £100,000 cash for a desposit for the average property in the South-East.

And that's not taking into account the millions of younger working families who can't afford deposits like that and are privately renting on about £1,500 pcm in second/third homes owned by Baby Boomers and can only dream of owning their own home.

Ha! We are lucky to earn £35k at the moment between us with a mortgage and 2 kids.

Are you really arguing that on normal single incomes they paid in enough to get £34k and £41k respectively for X number of years? I doubt it very much.

Working class women of current pensioners worked.My mum worked starting in factory jobs, then moved into office. And the ratesof depression amongst those who stayed at home, was very high. Drs routinely prescribed pills to help housewives cope with their dissatisfaction with their lives.

Everyone should get a decent retirement. But major cuts are being made to our welfare budgets.

Getting like my mother - my mum, born in thethirties, absolutely did not take it for granted that she would have a washing machine, vacuum cleaner or phone when we were young. When I was born, in the 1960's, my mum had no washing machine other than a 'copper'and mangle. She got a twin tub when my younger sister was about 18 months old. Our first vacuum cleaner was purchased about a year later, until then a carpet sweeper and dustpan and brush did that job. Our first phone was I. 1973 when we moved to a house that already had one installed. Your mum is nearer in age to my late grandmother. She had none of those items until much later, certainly after me and my sister were born, so well after her own children were adults. Until then, washing was done by hand with sheets and towels being taken to the local launderette. I don't recall her having a vacuum cleaner and she had a telephone installed about six months before my grandad died in 1980. Our different experiences are a good reason why it is ridiculous to demonise a whole generation based on some people's individual experiences.

One interesting anomaly is pensioners discounts. Pensioners very often get half price discounts on attraction entry/travel. I read a while ago that pensioners are now the least likely group to be living in poverty (fine/good) but still get loads of discounts. These discounts are unlikely to benefit the poorest pensioners, as they still couldn't afford entry so only the better off would benefit.

Thanks to decent public service pensions, plus investments and the state pension, we enjoy a six figure (just) retirement income. It was worth all those years of being poor, sticking to jobs which needed stamina and dedication, often in unappealing environments, second hand and home made clothes for me and DSs and rainy camping holidays.

I am not complaining obviously, but neither do I feel guilty. We are going to enjoy ourselves as long as we are fit enough to do so.

Gettinglikemymother sorry, didn't mean to strike you out. On my phone and forgot how to bold!

Thanks to decent public service pensions, plus investments and the state pension, we enjoy a six figure (just) retirement income. It was worth all those years of being poor, sticking to jobs which needed stamina and dedication, often in unappealing environments, second hand and home made clothes for me and DSs and rainy camping holidays.

I am not complaining obviously, but neither do I feel guilty. We are going to enjoy ourselves as long as we are fit enough to do so.

And you shouldn't feel guilty! Please do enjoy your retirement-no one is saying you shouldn't.

But the issue is that younger workers are also working in jobs that need stamina and dedication, in often unappealing environments and WON'T get to enjoy your 6 figure income and get to enjoy their retirement.

It's a sad state of affairs...

fakenameformow If pensioners get a discount on entry to an attraction it's because the operators see them as numbers mist likely to be at quiet times, when a reduced payer is better than none. What is wrong with that?

Actually I rarely see pensioner discounts now. Thursdays used to be big pensioner days at the hairdresser's when they all had shampoo and sets, but not so much any more.

The trouble with TrickyD 's model of scrimping for a great retirement is that all those wonderful savings and income can get swallowed up in care fees. Great if you are living the life until you're 100, but the pil have spent every penny they have on care through dementia. And - and this is a big factor in our lives - dh is absolutely adamant that we are not going to go short now in order to fund cruises and so on and sell our dcs short. This happened to dh. Pil were obsessively stingy with their dcs as everything was geared to saving for their retirement - early downsizing, refusing to contribute to university, etc etc. Ok if you want river cruises and safaris in Namibia and Michelin lunches, but frankly I'd rather have a few trips to Disneyworld with my dcs now and settle down by a one-bar fire with Take a Break when I'm 70.

Thanks, Kitty. I appreciate that there are difficulties for young people. I am concerned for my grandchildren. However what I find unpleasant is the jealous resentment displayed towards pensioners as was evidenced in the post complaining about pensioners' discounts, on the grounds that not all pensioners would benefit from them.

Rhoda, I certainly do not advocate depriving DCs once in a position not to do so. We went through the scrimping stage when there was no alternative. A couple of years ago I was savaged on MN because we still pay for our sons and grandchildren to come on an annual family holiday with us.

Apparently they should have stayed in a chilly caravan on the moors rather than a Caribbean beach.

I remember the launderette I used to use which had a sign which read

FREE Soap, bleach and dye!

WEDNESDAYS for blankets!
THURSDAYS for old age pensioners!

Well, TrickyD, you are obviously very wealthy indeed, so good for you. The point that people are trying to make is your generation is not some special hard-working one, just lucked out on property and pensions. Ok, you had some home-made clothes, but this does not equate to deserving a golden retirement. As someone said upthread, there would be a lot of people in Africa now sitting back and thinking, "Ah, been a bit hungry and seen a bit of war, but, do you know what? I'm really going to get a great retirement because I've suffered a bit of hardship." Pah.

The only places I see offering pensioner discounts, are those trying to get pensioners in at a quiet time e.g. for lunch time in a not very popular pub. I see far more student discounts offered.

What are public service pensions like now?

A free bus pass is worth a shit tonne to be fair.

Public service pensions have been cut, and most are tied to state retirement age.

Exactly, Rhonda. And all this 'we didn't have a washing machine or iPhone, therefore life was hard and we deserve to put up our feet.' Well, no one had them because they didn't exist or weren't available in the UK. Who knows where 'mod cons' will be when people who are now in their early 20s are in their 70s?

I don't have a washing machine now. Or an iphone.

Whilewe, I was not trying to imply by any means that these were everyone's experiences. Just that in general - in the past - each generation has had more than the previous one. I know my lot were more fortunate than many - both my sets of grandparents were able to buy their own (very modest) homes well before WW2, presumably when building society mortgages became available.
None of my great-grandparents could, and the g-granny with 10 children didn't have electric light until she was old - and was frightened to switch it on! Scary new-fangled thing, what was wrong with her good old gas lamps...

Rhoda, we are not "very wealthy indeed*. Comfortably off, yes. I did not say we 'deserved' to be in this position, though we did our best to earn it, which is rather different. But I do not feel guilty about it. Meanwhile we do our best for our kids and grandchildren.

(Sorry, totally off-topic, but since my last post DH1 rang to say D-not-yet-a-IL had her 20 week scan this a.m. and all is well, it's a boy. DH is out swimming and I had to tell someone!)