This thread will see you in court.Again. Trump watch

[amispartacus]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2850730-She-was-told-to-be-quiet-Nevertheless-she-persisted-Trump-cont

I wonder when this thread will fill up.

Neverthelessshepersisted

Worth noting that all of the women have at least some of their hair showing - the one at the front is having the follicular equivalent of a nip-slip.

Diplomacy requires following certain social & cultural conventions - in countries where certain dress codes are expected, you follow them; you avoid making gestures that are perfectly innocent to you but would be considered rude/offensive/obscene to your guests/hosts; you don't serve beef to Hindus or pork to Muslims/Jews... feminism doesn't mean throwing away centuries of accepted good practice in diplomatic relations - that would be absurd. The sort of bullish approach - with no thought to the long-term - one might expect from Trump, in fact.

(Sorry. I cannot brain today. Ballet was brutal. And then I spent my food budget buying toiletries & canesten & a new hat & some socks for a homeless guy. And next week's I gave him to spend on two nights in the YMCA. I have food in the freezer & cupboard & also have enough in savings that this was not QUITE as stupid as it sounds, but my worry is that he was visibly - physically - unwell & vulnerable. So my brain is full of that. And Brownies. Mwargh. I NEED MY ABILITY TO DO THINKING BACK.)

I think she has a problem with women leaders covering their heads on state visits. Thinking about it, is there a good reason why they do this?

They were visiting Iran where it is the done thing for women to cover their heads. i don't agree that women should have to cover their heads and bodies in this way but I think when you visit a country you abide by their laws and customs where it is reasonable to do so. I don't see the problem with it and do not see the wearing of a headscarf as condoning the actions of that government any more than I would see someone being respectful to the queen as being unquestioning support of the system of monarchy.

Diplomacy requires following certain social & cultural conventions - in countries where certain dress codes are expected, you follow them; you avoid making gestures that are perfectly innocent to you but would be considered rude/offensive/obscene to your guests/hosts; you don't serve beef to Hindus or pork to Muslims/Jews... feminism doesn't mean throwing away centuries of accepted good practice in diplomatic relations - that would be absurd
I agree!
The sort of bullish approach - with no thought to the long-term - one might expect from Trump, in fact

Re: the general etiquette of covering your head, I think many traditions are silly, but I follow them where it is polite to do so.

Re: Iran in particular, what is the alternative? Making a stand on head cover and not getting a meeting? Which hill should a female politician die on?

Thinking about it, is there a good reason why they do this

It must be very hard especially for women to go to a country and deal diplomatically with people whose culture and attitude towards women is appalling.

I can see the reasons not to offend - but then people at home get upset if you cover your hair - and use that against you. But if you don't cover your hair, it can be used against you. Lots of rules for women...

Men rarely face such issues.

Yes Minister covered all this in an episode where they go on a trade visit to a Middle Eastern country. Mrs. Hacker is made an 'honorary' man for the night and Jim gets drunk as they sneak in alcohol.

I am sure Star Trek TNG also covered the fine art of diplomacy.

Sometimes though - I wish our politicians would tell Saudi Arabia what they are really like. I think I'd be a bad diplomat.

It's a classic gotcha.

Female minister wears headscarf: "She's a hypocrite who fails to live up to her so-called feminist principles".

Female minster refuses to wear headscarf: "She's a virtue signaller who is harming the national interest by putting her feminist ideology ahead of diplomacy".

Heads I win, tails you lose.

It's not that dissimilar to the 'silly liberal feminists stand up for Muslim men who just want to rape white women' trope, which is pretty close to the old 'we only lynch black men because they rape white women' trope.

Which hill should a female politician die on

And yes - it's a rule that affects female politicians.

I have seen posts on Twitter where people who are anti Muslim (and anti feminism) have condemned female politicians for wearing head covering. Like they give a shit about female rights in that country but just see an excuse to bash a female leader.

JUST IN: Director of the U.S. Secret Service Joseph Clancy announces he is retiring effective March 4th - @PierreTABC

Just thinking, pure speculation on my part but probably because he balked at hiring Trump's former private security guards as Secret Service Agents.

Good stuff.

Better than "but Carrie from Homeland does it" too.

thank you

It's actually the law in Iran for women to cover, not just a custom. Which really does create a cleft stick: don't deal with the country at all; give all the jobs to the boys; or break the law of the country.

The Swedes have been getting on and dealing with Iran while not breaking the law of Iran when actually in that country; it's likely they deal with the US in exactly the same way, ie not breaking the law of the US when in that country - even if they disagree with laws in both.

I'm not keen on them being legally forced to wear the hijab, and its possible the Swedish women may well not have been either. But I note the male writer puts words in the women's mouths, rather than asking what they actually said to the Iranians.

Oh, and the article is factually wrong:
"On the one hand you have an American President and former Miss Universe competition owner who has done nothing to diminish women’s rights."

Doesn't sound like an accurate description of a man who has described how he personally sexually assaults women by grabbing them by the pussy. And there are multiple outstanding allegations of sexual assault against him.

Or what merry said: it's a bloke trying to dictate which hill a female politician should die on.

Not a dilemma he's ever going to be faced with for himself.

Better than "but Carrie from Homeland does it" too.

Actually I'd say that pretty much covers it

The Independent ‏*@Independent* 3m3 minutes ago
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Donald Trump is facing more conflict of interest questions

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/donald-trump-faces-ethics-conflict-of-interest-questions-after-china-trademark-win-a7580271.html

Across re SS, I would say that's a pretty good guess.

The Washington post as an article on the Clancy retirement. Gives some more info on him and possible successors.

Secret Service director to step down, giving Trump chance to select his own security chief
www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/14/secret-service-director-to-step-down-giving-trump-chance-to-select-his-own-security-chief/?postshare=5841487090646080&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.b5c96c6efcb1

Is it just me eagerly awaiting Spicer?

Wajahat Ali ‏*@WajahatAli* 2m2 minutes ago
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A former senior govt official tells me: “Trump leaves WH in only 1 of 2 ways: in handcuffs or a casket (poor health, not assassination)”

Hamlet, I think he could actually combust with the linguistic gymnastics he's going to have to perform dealing with the onslaught he'll be facing. He's probably rocking in a side room somewhere, mainlining cinnamon gum

Gabe OrtízVerified account
‏*@TUSK81*

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ICE backs out of a meeting on deportation raids with members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ice-director-hispanic-caucus_us_58a33322e4b094a129ef445a … #RaidWatch

PE Why do I feel he'll be channelling Melissa McCarthy this time, instead of the other way around?

Byron YorkVerified account
‏*@ByronYork*

FChief political correspondent, Washington Examiner, Fox News contributorollow
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Important that entire transcript of Flynn-Kislyak conversation be released. Leakers have already cherrypicked. Public needs to see it all.

He is late......Was supposed to be at 1 / 6pm here but no sign. Come out, Spicer.

Ginger you might be spot on - I think I read somewhere - could have been these threads - he wanted to go out & waive a water gun at the start of the first briefing after SNL but was prevented from doing so. I imagine he's going to be wrestled to the ground to remove the numerous nerf guns he's probably got stock piled for this evening

Whoa... it's like "lie central" for Angry Spice today.