To be ashamed of the Labour Party leadership

[20nil]

Long term member, did not support Corbyn, but even I am surprised by quite how bad he's been.

Where is the opposition? I get that Brexit is difficult, but where is Labour on the collapse of the NHS, the explosion of homelessness, the decimation of local council funding and the ticking bomb that is school funding?

Why is it that we now look to the Lords, the Cof E and petitions to be the opposition?

Shocking state of affairs.

I think we should organise a mumsnet group to do it. We could represent the regions, classes and occupations that make up the country.

Most of the Labour rebels were from very very strong Remain areas and/or will be past retirement age in 2020 apparently....

Yes, 20nil!

Good idea 20nil, count me in!

WRT the general approbation this 'intervention' has received, I think a lot of people are relieved that somebody articulate who just might be able to do something has spoken up, even if it is the dreaded TB.

I think you have to be careful , this thread is full of Labour voters. On the other thread about Blair it is lots of people calling him a war criminal.

Careful of what? I think we're pretty torn here. We are a mixed bunch, showing that Labour really is a broad church.

I was responding to the comment that his intervention has been received favourably. There is still a lot of hatred for Blair, I personally think this hatred is misplaced, but I suppose I am saying that it's important to be aware of echo chambers. That's where corbyn supporters have gone wrong , they think everyone thinks like them

Absolutely right but we disagree so much here, even among those of us who are anti JC. I've genuinely never met many people in the Party who thought new Labour was about right. Most of us were thrilled to be in power and grateful for what they did, but always longed for a more left wing party. Perhaps I need to change my expectations?

Fair point about echo chambers, it would be naive to think it's been received favourably across the board. All the same, it's interesting that people have commented positively where previously they would have been quick to condemn or just dismiss out of hand.

Dunno about expectations, but I think the pragmatism on this thread - as you just said, 20, we might prefer a more left govt but we'll take what we can get - is what Labour (and the left in general) lacks.

I just can't agree with a viewpoint that prefers to have the Tories in power for ever, smashing up the welfare state and fucking over the vulnerable, rather than tone the programme down a bit to get into power and stop the rot.

I find it hugely indulgent, and that's the main reason I won't vote for Corbyns Labour.

Ok whilst you lot tit around playing fantasy football pick-a-Labour- leadership comprising of war criminals, political has-beens and random people you like off the telly, Jeremy Corbyn has doubled the Labour Party membership to 600,000+ - now the biggest political party in Western Europe and won 2 leadership elections. Meanwhile the Tories are taking apart our NHS, our education system and our the rest of our welfare state. It was Cameron who caused Brexit due to his pathetic gamble to unite his party. The lib dems, when in power just sided with the Tories against even their own tiny election promises. Corbyn is the (well and truly) democratically elected leader of the opposition. So if you want to oppose the dismantling of our public services you best get backing him and fight the cuts because there's no one else on the horizon.

Jeremy Corbyn has doubled the Labour Party membership to 600,000+ - now the biggest political party in Western Europe and won 2 leadership elections.

Whilst doing monumentally badly amongst the wider electorate. Polls and popularity getting worse.

Some achievement hey.

And what the fuck has Corbyn done in the last four month since May announced she would trigger Article 50 in March

He has done fuck all. All that time he could have worked on a proposal, all that time he could have worked with those in the Tory party that are not at all happy, all that time he could have worked with his own MP's on an alternative plan to put forward

Membership means nothing a few hundred thousand far left supporters who want a far left government it's never going to happen and labour shall be trashed next week becuase Corbyn is so unpopular becuase the rest of us can see how utterly useless he is and how he will never ever be voted to be PM

The country need a credible opposition leader now more than ever

Wow, so much aggression. Not really kinder gentler politics, is it?

600,000 members, lovely. How far will that get Labour towards an actual parliamentary majority?

Kondo, have you read the thread? There has been plenty of discussion about the points you make, which were made many times earlier on. I don't want to type it all out again. We are talking about who could challenge a hard Brexit now.

flip, I agree. I didn't expect to see so many favourable comments.

Opinion polls aren't elections. Since Corbyn's been leader Oldham by-election labour win, London mayor labour win, Bristol mayor labour win. Do your research and don't believe everything Murdoch and Dacre feed you. And if you are seriously as worried about the cuts as you should be, then stop whining on social media about people who are opposing them and start doing stuff yourself to protect your local services. The Labour Party is a good place to start as there are so many keen new members.

Kondo, dialing down the sarcasm with apologies because up to now it's been a very constructive discussion - i acknowledge the leadership elections and the membership, but they're proxy achievements. I don't believe for a second they're going to result in a Labour government, so it's hard to get excited about them.

I'd love to be wrong, believe me. But I don't think I am.

Just read your cross post. We dealt with the right wing press barons trope on the first page. Rtft before you try patronising, hey?

Corbyn had nothing to do with the London Mayor elections Khan couldn't distance himself more if he tried he made that very obvious

And labour had be worse results in the local election of an opposition in over 25 years

Hardly doing well and his top aide had just quite

And I do not read right wing press

Oldham by-election labour win, London mayor labour win

In both instances the candidates fully distanced themselves from Corbyn!

Kondo, a majority of Labout's 2015 vote would prefer to see TM as PM. JC is losing amongst every demographic. Please do not insult our intelligence by saying we believe the tabloids when umpteen other sources and facts have been quoted on these and other threads - go back and read the thread, read what Richard Murphy, Danny Blanchflower and even Owen Jones now have to say about JC. And show me an opinion poll that has ever been as wrong as these would have to be to deliver a Lab govt under JC.

Can we get back to a constructive discussion now? I quite liked the fantasy football list for challenging hard Brexit and defending democracy and fighting crime?

Oh and let's not forget that polls usually over estimate Labours vote, which means it's even worse!

Ok the main point I am trying to make is that it if you want to stop damage to our welfare state then it is time to do things for yourself. It is lovely to have constructive discussions and fantasies about Gary Linekar coming to save the day but the reality is if you are bothered then it's time to get out and stick together with people who are out there opposing the damage being done.

Certainly not all the people that joined were pro corbyn. We joined after voting labour for years to have a chance to vote him out, I feel he's destroying labour.

I can't support Corbyn, he'd be too busy re nationalising and making a bigger mess to help people being screwed over by the tories, he cannot build consensus he's too extreme.