NHS IVF policy change

[Bambamrubblesmum]

Have you seen this?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/rip-ivf-nhs-cuts-to-fertility-treatment-will-deny-thousands-parenthood-a6717326.html

I can see both sides of the argument but AIBU to feel very sad that it's come to this

If you can't afford ivf- can you afford a child?

I repeatedly see MN posters say CTC is crucial because why should only high earners be able to have a family

I assume you would argue that if you can't afford to raise a child without CTC then you have no business trying to have one in the first place?

If you can't afford IVF can you afford a child my ass - that person who posted that probably doesn't have 2 pennies to rub together, but of course never needed to worry about that cause they got knocked up when they wanted.

That's ridiculous. As others have said, there will be many people who conceive naturally who don't have 6-20k to just drop in one go. Children can be expensive, but it's an expense that is stretched out over many years. If you fall pregnant, you have 9 months to save up and even then babies really don't cost all that much in the first few years (certainly nothing like the cost of several rounds of IVF).

Thank you Nasty she is doing well, but just sad that she could be doing much better if the NHS could fund new treatments, maybe one day!

The 'if you can't afford IVF can't afford children' debate is absolute rubbish. I have been fortunate to fall pregnant naturally and probably spent about £500 before the baby was born (cot/Pram etc), breastfeeding is free so until a year the costs are pretty low then the rest is spread out over the years (clothes/beds etc.) yes children are expensive but at no point would I of had £6k or upwards to pay upfront.

The "if you can't afford IVF" comments are nasty and unnecessary, and the natural selection one is about the cruellest thing I've read on here. Just because you're relatively anonymous on here, doesn't mean you get to say hurtful and nasty things. It's horrible. (And I say that as someone who is fortunate enough to not have needed IVF, but I can fully empathise with people who do need it!)

People often speak as if the only choices are between IVF and life-threatening illness, which of course isn't the case. There are many, many uses of NHS funds which don't relate to life-threatening illness. Which of those would they also cancel - or is it just that IVF is an easy target?

Would you rather get fined for a missed appointment, see stricter measures introduced on timewasting 999 calls and A&E visits, have a mild medical problem that the pharmacy could help with, or never have any children?

icy21 why are you saying diabetics are 'not denied care'? I had to fund a private eye operation due to diabetic complications, as by the time the NHS had got round to treating me I would probably have suffered permanent sight loss. I had to sell my car to get one injection of a drug for my eye that the NHS would not fund.

There are loads of diabetics suffering due to shit care on the NHS, ok they don't completely close their doors to you but I wouldn't say the care is optimal by any stretch of the imagination and it's only getting worse.

Same for all the other conditions most probably.

Hear hear, ordinarily. It is not infertile couples vs cancer patients, as many posters imply.

I agree that we shouldn't be comparing IVF to cancer treatment, but I do think that there are a lot of non-life saving treatment which currently the NHS funds and which a lot of people desperately rely on and which are all likely to be cut to a greater or lesser extent; IVF, cosmetic surgery (and I include surgery to help people who have facial disfigurements, or breast reduction surgery for people who are in constant back pain, or reconstructive surgery post-mastectomy), tattoo removal (including facial tattoos, or tattoos with unpleasant political associations that have since been left behind), talking therapies, and similar things.

And every single cut will be devastating to someone. I just don't think there actually are any frivolous services that we could just cut and only the undeserving welfare mother with 17 children and a flat screen TV who wants botox and breast enlargements will suffer. What we need is to accept that either we must all pay more tax (and accept tax raises that we will notice) or revisit how the NHS is funded. Personally, I could live with the French or German model, but I fear that any moves towards that would actually end up with us lurching to some variant of the American system.

OK so the success rates are 1 in 6 people per cycle will conceive and most people won't achieve this first time. The 14% was an old figure, which was a mean average spread across age brackets.

It's still not overwhelmingly convincing in terms of effectiveness but because the potential reward is so high, people overlook that.

One of the most upsetting things for me doing IVF was completing the paperwork where we were judged by the clinic whether we would be supportive parents or not, and had to disclose any physical or psychological conditions

Any fucker can get knocked up naturally and SS will (rightly) bend over backwards to keep a child with its birth family

But the couple who put themselves through the physical, emotional and financial stress of IVF, because they want a baby so very very much, are the ones who have to complete paperwork for others to decide if they would make fit parents or not

(FWIW our IVF is entirely self funded)

We obvs understand why it's needed. But when you see news stories of child abusers and other total arseholes who are allowed to breed, it's just another reminder of how upsetting it is to be barren. Not saying there's any way around it, but if you've conceived naturally, it's a process you thankfully won't have had to go through

Thank you for answering my (stupid) question. I wasn't thinking, your all right!

@maggiethemagpie the NHS spends £1.5m an hour on diabetes care. I'm sorry your eye operation had to be done privately.

@evilgiraffe - I'm not saying cancer patients vs IVF. And as others have said, cutting ivf spending won't divert it to cancer. It will just cut the spending. The cancer pot doesn't change. I'm saying obesity-related care (£16bn a year) much of which is spent on type 2 diabetes, is care directly related to a lifestyle choice - being overweight. I am more inclined to think that illnesses caused by actions should be at least partially self-funded.

I was a 27, with a BMI of 19, non-smoker, low-level wine only drinker who has endo and pcos and was informed that I didn't qualify for fertility treatment on the NHS because my other half has 2 living kids with someone else. So despite me meeting every criteria that would indicate successful IVF, thanks to the CCG the upshot of me suffering infertility was that I had to find £12k. Unlike losing weight to reduce insulin resistance, there's no active intervention you can take to make yourself "more fertile" (although I threw time and £ at a lot of woo just in case - acupuncture, supplements, meditations etc).

yes it is unfair that due to postcodelottery that some woman get 3 nhs goes and some one or none

its also unfair that if partner has children with previous partner you lose your nhs go

over all i have ttc for 10yrs, for the first 2 i was told i was young, go home and carry on trying, then went back at allotted time and started on the usual amh/fsh/tube dye tests etc, and thenput on nhs ivf list with my husband, he then sadly died and week after got the letter saying yes we could start ivf

double blow

year later met an amazing man who although has kids in their 20's was happy to try again, to,ld him i wouldnt get preg naturally

went back to nhs and as df has kids, lost my go :(

thus meant we had to pay if wanted any chnace of having kids

over next 4years we did 3 fresh cycles, 2 era (dummy fet to check lining) 2 fets from 3 rd fresh cycle, as well as couple of gynee ops and spent £27k!!!

no we didnt have the money, we took out loans, credit cards and my parents paid for one cycle bless them

as someone said if you fall preg you are not asked to prove you can feed and cloth the child, but with ivf you need to find £5/7k upfront before you can even try ivf, and due to low odds,likely to fail as well, which is then heartbreaking to pay loan while licking wounds

i always said even before ttc that if someone wanted kids that badly they will find the money for one round, esp if both adults are working - through loans, over time,saving, not holidays for as year or two, credit cards etc

it when that fails and you need to start saving/looking how to pay for next cycle that it gets hard

so yes all woman should get one go of ivf on the nhs regardless of postcode, age,or if partner has children

i am overjoyed to say that the 5th worked and as i said £27k later i am 33w preg with our baby

do we begrudge getting into debt (tho paid off now) to have this baby, no we dont, but its easier to say that as finally worked

agree ordinarily, 100%

Like many of us I am upset and frustrated with the NHS right now

its so so fucked up that we are allegedly one if the wealthier countries and we cant fund an initial round of IVF for our citizens, and investigate why they are infertile

and like everyone else, I say charge me more tax, really. as this is more important than anything else out there

Not sure why you're singling me out, icy?

It is utterly depressing that provision of IVF is denied to couples where one partner has proven fertility - assessment needs to be done as a couple! I started TTC at 27, and had my first (IVF) baby at 31 - I am very grateful that we managed to meet the criteria at the right time.

NHS also isn't interested in miscarriage until you've had 3 consecutive losses

I've 'only' had 2 losses, from 2 IVF transfers, but NHS won't help me because I have to do another (self funded) IVF cycle at a cost of several thousand pounds, get pregnant and miscarry again before they'll help me. I have a 100% pregnancy rate but 0% live birth rate.

So I've paid hundreds (thousands) on investigations to try and help me stop losing more babies. Because NHS isn't interested until I have another loss.

It's not 1 in 6, it's 1 in 3 per cycle and in 1 in 2 in some cases.

@icy121 yes I completely agree. I was lucky enough to receive NHS funding for 2 attempts. After the first failed, we needed to make decisions about what we were prepared to do if the second one failed too. We didn't want to make financial decisions within the emotional context of IVF failure and tried to weigh up what we would do.

I couldn't fathom how we would live with less stretch than £10 per month in our budget. But equally couldn't think about what life would be like if we never had a child.

It's a really tough call to make, infertility is not a preventable illness but equally is not life threatening. I personally think the NHS will be better off taking a 2 tier approach; if you have paid contributions then treatments like IVF should be available to you. If you have not, then basic life saving treatment should always be available but not treatments to the extent that is available to all at present.

NiceGlass, I think your stats are wrong, where are you getting them from? Success rates are better than one in six.

Sorry I was looking at an old HFEA document. Latest figures are that it's 1 pregnancy for every 4.8 cycles.

I would have to differ about babies not costing much. They might not cost much in terms of clothes and food but most couples either suffer the loss of one income (usually mum) or a massive child care bill. This can easily be more than the cost of IVF over even just one year.

Fakename - yes, childcare costs are crazily high. When I return to work it will cost us £13k+ per year! But you have 9 months of saving when pregnant (ignoring any savings when TTC) plus any time taken on maternity leave (obviously most people aren't able to save during this time) before you need to consider paying childcare, then you only pay monthly when the child goes to childcare (so not, for example, an upfront cost of £13k at the start).

No chairs for chemo patients. Jesus Christ :(