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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Neighbour Wars, AIBU?

79 replies

TwoTribesGoToWar · 11/02/2017 12:32

I have name changed for this, for obvious reasons.

Background info:
We live down a dead-end track, at the end of which are two semi-detached houses (one of which is ours) and a recently converted barn. The track maintenance falls between all three families and it tends to get quite pot-hole-y in the winter. Historically, some farmers used to own a big metal shed on the track and the old man of the family who owned it used to potter up every morning and liked to fill in the pot holes a tiny bit at a time and we'd give them some money to pay for the planings that would be delivered periodically (the black tarry scrapings from when they tarmac roads). This worked really well and the track never got too bad. The maintenance of the track fell four ways at that point - us, our attached neighbours, the farmers who owned the metal barn/shed and the property developer who owned the brick barn at the time.

Some new people bought the old brick barn and converted it, then decided they also wanted to buy the metal bar/shed to use for storage. This caused a bit of consternation as they then told us that the track maintenance would now be split three ways instead of four (still with me?). As far as we were concerned, the barn owners should now be responsible for 2/4 of the track maintenance and we stay with 1/4 as previously - we shouldn't have our share increased because they've bought extra property, should we?

Anyway. Now the old man doesn't come anymore obviously, so DH, and very occasionally our attached neighbour, will go out and fill in some of the pot holes, using stone that we all pay for (doesn't need much as often the stone is all still around the edges of the actual holes). The barn owners - who have been here for about three years now - have NEVER helped with this. Their solution is to buy a shit load of stone, hire a bloke for a day and to just smother the entire track, which doesn't actually solve the underlying pot hole problem so they come back again quickly.

This time, that option came up again and DH said he'd rather we all went out there for a couple of hours and filled in the holes with the existing stone. Barn man wasn't happy with this and said he'd speak to the other neighbour and then yesterday there appeared a massive pile of stone and a bloke this morning filling in the holes. He's demanded £130 off us for this. DH has refused and the neighbour has had a massive row with him, telling him that DH wouldn't know a hard day's work if it hit him in the face etc etc etc (DH works incredibly hard but barn man is a plumber so does a manual job). He also threatened DH if we didn't pay - I'll get that money off you, don't you worry mate, you see if I don't.

AIBU? Should we pay for the unnecessary stone and the labour? DH has been out there for 2 hours and has actually done more of the track than the bloke who was hired to do it. I'm absolutely fuming.

Sorry for the rant, but the background info was pertinent!

OP posts:

Original poster

TwoTribesGoToWar · 11/02/2017 14:08

Yes, that's exactly right YellowDinosaur. I particularly love your colour coding!

That'll teach me to draw up deed diagrams whilst cooking and feeding off the hungry hordes!!!

OP posts:

Twopeapods · 11/02/2017 14:09

I agree. You and your semi detached neighbour would still be liable for 1/4 and him the half. If it's split between 4 properties then that's it. Doesn't matter that he now owns two of them. He should pay a bigger share.
I would seek to get it drawn up legally. What does your neighbour think?

Original poster

TwoTribesGoToWar · 11/02/2017 14:09

Fending off!!

OP posts:

limitedperiodonly · 11/02/2017 14:09

Entertaining though this is for us, it is a big problem for you that is only going to get worse and quite possibly very, very expensive.

Instead of asking people on Mumsnet to interpret your deeds and a diagram you should get advice from a solicitor who knows what they're talking about with a view to getting a fair and binding agreement between the three households. You will have to pay for it, but some things are worth paying for.

Isitjustmeorisiteveryoneelse · 11/02/2017 14:14

yellow loving your work!
And OP, as Limited said, unfortunately. Though in the meantime you could invoice him GBP130.00 for DHs labour......

YellowDinosaur · 11/02/2017 14:23

You could agree that it needs to be done every 3 months (for eg). And take it in turns to deal with it. If your choice is to do it yourself and your neighbours is to throw money at the problem then that's fine. But you would need to sit down and chat together.

If that doesn't work then yes, I agree a solicitor will be money will spent.

NightWanderer · 11/02/2017 14:37

I'm not sure what a solicitor could say though beyond the initial agreement. You need to have a get-together and decide on what's fair in terms of what costs are reasonable and get him to accept the deeds and to repair your fence and gate post asap. Be firm but reasonable.

If he still won't agree then I think he'll need a solicitor because otherwise you just don't pay.

Maybe easier for you and the other detached house to do in front of all the houses, and he do the rest of the lane. Assuming its the halfway point at the corner of the barn. I mean the halfway point from between the red and green house to the road. Not perfect, but close enough.

murmuration · 11/02/2017 14:41

Yeah, but every 3 months won't work because the winter months will be much worse.

And it seems fine if the guy wants to spend money to hire someone to do his share - but that's all it is. He can't hire someone to other people's shares, too.

Original poster

TwoTribesGoToWar · 11/02/2017 14:43

He's just told DH that he's spoken to his solicitor and it's going to cost us thousands. Not entirely sure exactly what he's spoken to him about though but I'm utterly baffled by the whole situation escalation!

OP posts:

TheWitTank · 11/02/2017 14:44

Agree with getting a solicitor involved -but also think you should all look into getting the road properly sorted. Chucking stone in pot holes all the time is a right arse ache and a recipe for arguements over who does how much and who pays for what etc. Get a quote for getting it tarmaced or whatever you all want and live peacefully!

Anotherdayanotherscreenname · 11/02/2017 14:53

TheWitTank () speaks sense. By the time the legal battle is over you'll be wishing you all just got tarmac.

NightWanderer · 11/02/2017 14:53

Tarmacing will cost a fortune though. I'd call his bluff, sit tight and wait and see if a letter comes from his solicitor. If one comes, then get legal advice but if he's contacted a solicitor then surely the solicitor will just tell him he needs to abide by the deeds. You said your husband said no to the work being done. If he wanted to hire a private contractor he would have needed agreement from all parties first.

Original poster

TwoTribesGoToWar · 11/02/2017 14:57

We are going to be concreting the track in the summer, as everyone wants to do. DH has looked at quotes, times, different solutions etc and given them to both other neighbours to look at and discuss but barn neighbour only wants solutions he's thought of. Not sure what's going to happen, we've tried our best but we're also not going to be bullied into things we've not agreed to.

OP posts:

TheWitTank · 11/02/2017 15:00

It will cost a fair bit yes -but over years over constant topping up of worsening pot holes, potential car damage and arguements? Worth every penny. Split three ways it won't be as bad as you think and will help with resale value (if you ever look to sell -I wouldn't touch a house with a shit drive and a shared shit drive at that!). Good luck op

Original poster

TwoTribesGoToWar · 11/02/2017 15:04

That's the point though Wit - it shouldn't be split three ways - it should be split four ways - up to the boundary of barn man's property. He bought the metal barn knowing full well it came with the liability of a 1/4 of the track maintenance up to his brick barn. We shouldn't have our share increased because he feels it ought to be. Our deeds say we are only responsible for 1/4, not 1/3.

OP posts:

TheWitTank · 11/02/2017 15:06

Sorry, I did mean four way split -I meant between three people (or sets of people) but yes, he should be split as deeds I agree.

diddl · 11/02/2017 15:15

If the whole thing was going to be properly done though & no maintenance needed for some foreseeable time, why wouldn't you consider all paying a third each?

YellowDinosaur · 11/02/2017 15:19

If the whole thing was going to be properly done though & no maintenance needed for some foreseeable time, why wouldn't you consider all paying a third each?

Are you on honestly serious? Why on earth would they pay a third, when they are only responsible for a quarter, to benefit people who have behaved like bullies?

diddl · 11/02/2017 15:24

Good grief it was only a suggestion!

Everyone would benefit from the whole thing being done properly.

YellowDinosaur · 11/02/2017 15:29

They would diddl. And in the op's situation if the neighbour was a decent parson who had pulled their weight (I think she'd mentioned they hadn't helped to fill in the pot holes in 3 years) and not then tried to bully them into paying for costs that hasn't been agreed I might be inclined to agree with you. In this situation? No way

diddl · 11/02/2017 15:39

Oh yes I do know what you mean and obviously this guy can't just order stuff and demand payment.

I'just thinking if there's a chance of getting it surfaced properly all in one go it might be worth thinking about.

AppleG · 11/02/2017 15:43

Are you the property on the end? My maths might be totally wrong here but imagine the road was going to cost £1000 to do.
First part of track is the longest, imagine £700 split 4 ways. Next section is £100, next is £100 and last one £100. Wouldn't it be split like this? -

Section 1: 700/4 = 175 each (person with barns pays 350)
Section 2: 100/3= 33.3 each
Section 3: 100/2 = 50 each
Section 4: 100

So barn person pays: £383.3
First semi pays: £258
Last semi pay: £358

Obviously this is a total generalisation and maybe I've got it wrong but this might help in deciding if it's worth the stress of breaking it all down. The person who loses the most is the first semi and the last person and barn person are pretty similar (although maybe not if it's thousands)

NightWanderer · 11/02/2017 15:50

No, because there are 5 sections. Barn person has to pay twice because he owns 2 buildings.

NightWanderer · 11/02/2017 15:53

Or maybe not....

limitedperiodonly · 11/02/2017 15:55

I agree with diddl. I wouldn't want to pay more than the share outlined in my deeds. I would not be coughing up for someone who decided to hire materials and labour for the job without consulting me and getting my agreement. But the situation is not ideal and the lane is only going to deteriorate. This does need to be sorted.

It's lovely if people do the decent thing and pull their weight and all the rest of it, but not everyone wants to spend their free time repairing the potholes with bits of rubble from the side of the road - that's if it's even effective and it doesn't sound as if it is.

OP, I had something similar to this and IME it is best to get someone who knows what they are talking about to draw up a clear and legally binding agreement between all parties. Otherwise this will go on and on and create misery in your home which should be the place where you can close the door and say goodbye to the world.

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