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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Does it really do any harm??

386 replies

fruitandbarley · 08/02/2017 00:50

Holidays in school time. I'm 40, my parents took me out of school for a week once a year to go on holiday.
I've done ok for myself, don't believe it's affected me in any way.
So AIBU to ask if it's really such a big deal. ( So long as it's not a silly amount of time).
Disclaimer:- I've had wine, any spelling mistakes are due to that and not a week camping in Cornwall when I was 8).

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2017 10:22

PigletWasPoohsFriend well, with respect, I did not scream it in your face, nor would I ever do such a thing. I think that is terrible and I am sorry that happened, honestly. Thanks

My point was (and I feel it is valid) that taking my child out of a service provided for them (whoever is paying) is not the same as the person providing that service taking a holiday when they are contracted to provide that service. That is all.

MsGameandWatch · 08/02/2017 10:23

I haven't read the thread. There's no point because nothing will convince me that a week/fortnight out of school annually does any harm.

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2017 10:24

The students (adult), where I work, pay my salary but of course none would ever scream in my face, nor would I expect it piglet. Thanks

Genevieva · 08/02/2017 10:24

When I taught 11-18 I was struck by how little young children can take onboard towards the end of a long term. So, in that context, I don't think removing an 11 year old or younger from school during the week before the Christmas holidays makes much difference. They have often reached saturation point and need a break.

On the other hand, I have had exam classes with high levels of absence before and it drives me round the bend. The AS-A2 system that is being phased out made it worse than before because teenagers had 3 years in a row of public exams, which means more lesson time taken up by mocks, study leave and so forth. When every lesson in the school year is critical for covering the course properly it means that every child who misses a lesson news to catch up in their own time, which often involves me spending my non-teaching time going over things with them. Obviously illness happens, but when they miss lessons for holidays it is really annoying.

Some years ago I had a Y12 class with such high absence rates that someone was absent from every lesson for almost a whole term. I started to feel used - like they didn't value the lessons I spent so much time planning. I don't think school children have any idea how much effort teachers put into planning lessons.

grannytomine · 08/02/2017 10:37

My GS is bright but also very good at a number of sports. He represents the school in several of these sports and seems to miss alot of time at school because of this, last term I think he missed too full days when he was away at sports events and every week missed a lesson as he had to leave school early to go to events. The school rule is if he wants to attend these events it is his responsibility to catch up. He does this by borrowing notes from friends or if there are handouts in lessons his friends take a copy for him. Funny how this doesn't seem to be a problem if he is winning silver trophies for the school.

d270r0 · 08/02/2017 10:38

As a secondary teacher, it doesn't particularly bother me personally if kids are absent due to holidays. Yes they will miss certain topics that will be taught in that week. But the focus is on them to make sure they learn and understand those topics, not me. I will not spend any extra time reteaching those topics to those children, I'm not paid to be a private tutor after school ends, I have enough of my own work to do. So if they don't make the effort themselves, they won't be able to do those questons and will get those questions wrong in their exams. I am paid to teach my timetabled lessons, and all the extra directed time such as meetings, parents evenings, etc. Apart from that I have all my own preparation for those lessons to take care of, plus marking. I will not spend extra, unpaid time helping kids catch up who have deliberately missed my lessons.

grannytomine · 08/02/2017 10:38

two full days even

tobecontinued2000 · 08/02/2017 10:42

I remember when I was a child my class mates parents would write a letter to say they were going on holiday for 2 weeks and no one said anything.

My son has only recently started school so I've not done this but that's not to say I won't in the future at some point.

Different issue if the child has exams coming up.

Trifleorbust · 08/02/2017 10:44

Funny how this doesn't seem to be a problem if he is winning silver trophies for the school.

This isn't because the school is okay with him winning trophies but not going away; it is the law. Heads are not allowed to authorise absences except in exceptional circumstances.

witsender · 08/02/2017 10:57

It may not be an issue as a one off, but from a governor's point of view it is always the same families who take a holiday 3 times a year. That level does impact, and it impacts on the attendance figures that the school is scrutinised over.

Whatsername17 · 08/02/2017 10:58

I'm a teacher. Its only problematic in year 10 and 11. The rest of the time, providing that attendance is otherwise good, it doesn't make much difference. Under the old rules, most heads would have no issues authorising up to two weeks off. Under the new rules, that isn't allowed and being able of fine parents is too much of a financial pull to resist because schools have never been more underfunded. It's crap and it is the kids who suffer.

witsender · 08/02/2017 10:59

I remember when I was a child my class mates parents would write a letter to say they were going on holiday for 2 weeks and no one said anything. My son has only recently started school so I've not done this but that's not to say I won't in the future at some point.

Fine, but you will get fined.

Eolian · 08/02/2017 11:07

I'm a teacher. I don't give a monkey's if people take their dc on holiday during term time. But I'm damned if I'd spend my own time (which I'd need for planning lessons and marking work for the kids who are actually in lessons) catching kids up because their parents chose to let them lie on a beach and save money on plane fares while the rest of us were working. If you don' t mind your child missing a week of teaching, go ahead. If you do mind, take your holidays in the school holidays like all teachers have to for their whole career.

My dd just had 2 whole weeks off sick. I am not expecting her teachers to run around after her, catching her up with things she missed, and that's when her absence was unavoidable and 100% not our or her fault.

MsGameandWatch · 08/02/2017 11:21

I've never been fined and I have taken my DD out for a fortnight every year since Reception. It depends on the school.

MsGameandWatch · 08/02/2017 11:22

I'm a teacher. Its only problematic in year 10 and 11. The rest of the time, providing that attendance is otherwise good, it doesn't make much difference.

Good to hear that from an actual teacher 😊

brasty · 08/02/2017 11:23

Eolian - you have a lot of weeks when you can take holidays. Some parents have no choice but to take holiday during term time. They are very restricted about when they take holiday.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 08/02/2017 11:27

How long is a piece of string.

The odd week or few days a year I don't think will make slightest difference no. Not for my DD anyway who loves learning and is a good student, in top sets. She is fully supported at home with all this.

It disgusts me that people with ill and dying relatives are having to go to school staff to beg days off to go and see them or go into details about private family affairs.

It should be much easier to take a few days out - and simply have stronger controls in place for people who abuse that - ie taking more than two weeks out every single year!

Punishing us all with a sledge hammer Angry of course dc at private school are not so affected - they can travel outside normal hols as they get extra weeks, richer DC will travel the world, building life experiences. Poor dc are cut off. As usual.

Genevieva · 08/02/2017 11:30

Maybe I need to be tougher. I know I am a bit of a softy when it comes to helping students during my own time - lunch breaks, non-teaching periods, after school.. (except when I have to leave promptly to get the kids). Before I had children my department used to run Easter holiday revision sessions.

To be honest, I think I put too much time into my planning and marking too. I am also a sucker for covering lessons for absent staff in my department when I don't have to. I am part-time and I honestly couldn't do what I do if I had a full teaching timetable.

Early on in my career I had a student who missed a lot of school. To begin with I sent her work and did everything I could to keep her up to date, but in the end she was so rarely there and she wasn't asking for work, so my efforts dwindled. If I am honest, I thought she was a bit flaky. The school failed to tell her teachers that she had cancer. I felt dreadful when she came back after the exams and told me that she had taken them in her hospital bed. I was so shocked and I felt so guilty that I hadn't done more to support her.

Str4ngedaysindeed · 08/02/2017 11:37

I spent huge amounts of time in hospital all through my primary years and up to the age of 14. There were teachers in hospital but as I only liked reading and writing stories, that's all they made me do! I couldn't do long division until I was about 15 partly because of this. Paryly as a break form endless surgery, when I was 14 (third year old style!) my mum and I spent two months in Canada visiting family. School said ooh how lovely, here's some work to do (including writing a diary of our amazing trip, some geography and maths - currency conversion etc). I think I probably learned more in those two months than I would have at school. I wish I could do the same for my kids!

mumsneedwine · 08/02/2017 12:28

I've had 2 students miss their CAUs because they were skiing. These are compulsory and take 5 hours each. I got my HOD to write explaining we would not be giving up 5 hours after school so the students would lose the 25% marks. We had taken the whole year off timetable for a day and given parents 6 months notice of the dates. The parents of the students then took legal action against the school saying we were not fulfilling our obligation to teach. And our Governors then ordered us to do the CAU after school.
In answer to the question what do I find hardest ? Entitled, rude and non working students who demand my extra time. For kids with illnesses or SEN I never mind staying late or getting in early. That's the bits of the job I love - belling kids who want to learn.
Back to class - just had lunch while helping a year 9 who missed last week as he got a hockey ball in the eye.

AndNowItsSeven · 08/02/2017 12:30

Trifle two of my dc have autism they wouldn't cope holidaying in peak time. I would prioritise their family holiday which is essential for our whole family's wellbeing due to their disability, above your pay scale.
I don't agree with the pressure teachers are under though.

Trifleorbust · 08/02/2017 12:34

AndNowItsSeven: I am just explaining why this isn't a neutral decision for a Head. I really don't want to get into a debate about your child's SN!

Trifleorbust · 08/02/2017 12:35

mumsneedwine: That is shocking. I wouldn't have done it - new job time?

Xmasbaby11 · 08/02/2017 12:37

Dd is in reception so we haven't dealt with it yet but I would only take her out of school if there was a very good reason. Dd is not picking things up very quickly and even after half term off she will have lost ground. We do try to get her to do reading etc at home but she seems to engage more with the teachers. For that reason I'd be reluctant to take her out of school. There's a family wedding in a few months and initially I didn't want to take her out for that, but dh has persuaded me (1 day).

Crunchymum · 08/02/2017 12:39

Surely the issue here is precedence?

If child A is allowed a week off during term time then surely child B and child C/D/E/F are also allowed a week off during term time and therein lies the issue?

Once 5+ pupils start missing possibly different weeks of school then the already overworked teacher has to do all their work and cater for these 5+ kids and what they have missed?