To wonder if you're one of the older members of a large family you ever stop and think

[PlayOnWurtz]

No more kids please mum and dad!

How much were you expected to do to support them?

There is a huge environmental impact when having a child and personally I think it is selfish to have more than two. That's my personal feeling, though.

I know someone who's one of 10. She said it was awful. She only has two by choice, but said she thinks anything over 4 is too much. She said growing up was just nothing but parents getting people fed and clothed with no time for much of anything else. She also said she was teased a lot at school because everyone assumed they were poor. She was happy to have her siblings then to an extent because no one else wanted to be friends with them.

Someone else I knew was one of 12 kids. The neglect was apparent. The kids weren't well educated because there just wasn't time. Not bad prove but just came across as stupid.

Obviously these families are huge and not the norm at all. Unless you have a lot of help from grandparents, aunts, uncles etc I don't see how it's physically possible to take care of a family this big properly. I used to enjoy this in an area where I dealt with big families. It was as above. Neglect.

What? I am not allowed to moan about the price of things now either? As a rule I don't actually moan that much about the price of raising children. However, if someone with one or two kids can moan about the price of uniform so can I. Those school blazers are a rip off not matter how many kids you have ;)

It's interesting that the majority (not all!) of posts from the perspective of the DC involved are that having lots of siblings was a negative thing, whilst the posts from parents are super-defensive and claiming their DC love it. I'd love to hear from those DC when they're older!

Yes, the majority of posts are negative, however if you look at the reasons why it is quite clear that a lot of that is because of how the parents manage it. No privacy, Having to babysit all the time, crowded houses and not enough attention are the main reasons given. That simply doesn't apply to all large families. My son is nearly 18, Is his opinion of his childhood good enough yet?

I did a quick google search last night about people's experiences of growing up in big families. Some were negative but there were lots of people sharing their love of being in a big family. So while this thread on MN might be overwhelmingly negative, there are many positive stories out there.

This thread is a small sample of people so I'm not going to believe that my children actually hate being a part of a largish family because a few MNers hated it.

There is a huge environmental impact when having a child and personally I think it is selfish to have more than two. That's my personal feeling, though.

Having any children is selfish when we get down to it, isn't it?

Of course you are right, the more children you have the more environmental impact they have. You could argue that having more than one is selfish as well, or having any children at all.

It does make me laugh though, when people with one or two children act all superior because they are causing less of an environmental impact. Of course we are selfish and you with your two children made a completely selfless decision to have them.

I am one of six

Three have only 1 child, two have 2 and one has 3 though the third was a drunken New Year's Eve accident.

i will never understand why people want so many. I got one day trip out with my Mother once when I was 14 and it's my best memory of childhood. With contraception freely available in the U.K these days if people really have a lot of dc that can't afford them then don't complain.

There seems to be a very interesting theme occurring here.

If you are the child of a large family, the overwhelming first hand view is negative. ** This is not anecdotal 'I knew somebody once' .. but the actual experience of people who lived it and extremely disingenuous of anyone to dismiss it as such.

The same is said on threads of only children when the child's ( now adult) views are heard.

The opposite view is heard when the parent of a large or only, (by choice) child family are heard. Each time is seems what the parent considers best are in direct conflict to the view held by the child/ren .

This leaves the conclusion that both extremes of choice are inherently 'selfish' because they consider solely the parents wishes when it comes to family size with little thought given to the interests of the existing child/ren.

It is U2 but as with anything else it's the extent to which you do it.

Apologies for weird bold type thing. iPad having a Monday moment.

My DH is the third of four and all of them are close and happy. The only difference perhaps is that there is less than six years between youngest and eldest so they weren't asked to look after younger children really.

Their mother did get them to do a lot of stuff from a young age, but it was always stuff that did something for themselves. So putting on washing including stuff they needed, or washing up after a meal they had eaten. There was very much an emphasis that they were doing these things to look after themselves rather than skivvying after others. Done them a power of good as they are all very capable.

Well really U2, having 2 is just replacing the parents so the environmental impact cancels itself out. Assuming those kids just have 2 each, the population remains pretty much the same, only really growing as medicine advances and people live longer.

If you have 6 kids, and they each have 6 kids, your selfish decision (and theirs) is suddenly having an absolutely huge environmental impact as we try to find resources for 42 more people and then their families and so on.

Obviously a latter scenario is unlikely (in the U.K.) but it's just an example of how comparatively having two children really isn't selfish with the environment as a consideration.

This is not to be mean to you or anything. I'm just pointing out that your comparison doesn't make sense.

I actually like reading threads like this. I have 4 children, very close in age. It reminds me that I shouldn't expect more from the elder ones. Agree with Pp that much is probably down
To parenting and actually making time for each of your children individually. Which is hard when you have lots of them.

I don't know why people pretend that 2 children "cancels it out". Modern people are living longer, consuming far more resources and, are more wasteful and individually for the most part having a far bigger impact environmentally than the same 2 people would have done if they'd been born 100 years ago.

I think children with both no siblings and lots of siblings have a rose-tinted view of what life might have been like if they'd had a different number of siblings.
I hear all the time that we should have a second as then they'd "have each other" etc etc. Except I barely see my sibling once a year, he's certainly neither company nor support and never has been. We've always been way too different.

So I assume that people who grew up with what they consider "too many" siblings also might find that they idealise smaller families and don't see the negatives.

DH and I are both the eldest of 4 (and I had 2 step siblings) from Irish catholic families, so it seemed normal growing up.

We both hated it, and in common with nearly everyone else on the thread, all our siblings are either childless or have small families

I don't mean this in a goady way but the only people I know now with big families are a bit... odd. It's their hobby and how they announce themselves. It feels very much like they are making up for something or having children out of boredom

Of course it is not the same and I'm causing more of an environmental impact.

We all fuck up the environment in many ways. I agree that I'm causing a greater impact on the environment in many ways but we are all selfish for having children and it makes me laugh that some people feel superior because they are a bit less selfish than me.

And yes, having two children doesn't cancel anything out.

I think children with both no siblings and lots of siblings have a rose-tinted view of what life might have been like if they'd had a different number of siblings.

Definitely. My MIL is an only child and hated it, she still hates it and she hates it even more now her parents are elderly and she has no siblings to help with the care. She thought it was lonely and claims she missed out on a lot. She loves seeing my large family and feels envious that she didn't have it. Most of us thinks the grass is greener on the other side.

I don't mean this in a goady way but the only people I know now with big families are a bit... odd. It's their hobby and how they announce themselves. It feels very much like they are making up for something or having children out of boredom

You don't mean this in a goady way? Lets face it, it's quite an offensive statement to make.

Although it did make me chuckle a little bit. I am odd, that is true, but having children wasn't my hobby and I most certainly wasn't bored.

I'm not sure what you mean by it's how they announce themselves?

i'm the oldest of 6, I was 12 when the youngest was born and I'll admit I often wished my parents had stopped after me and my sister. I had this idea that if we had less kids we would be able to go to Spain on holiday rather than caravaning in Rhyl.

I did help out a lot with my siblings but I don't resent that at all.

One thing I notice sometimes with big families is that the parents run out of steam by the time the youngest are teenagers. And if the youngest are difficult teens they can run rings around their parents and get away with it.

Lets face it, it's quite an offensive statement to make

It's my observation, it isn't offensive

What do I mean by they announce themselves... it's like the old joke, how can you tell if someone has been to Oxbridge? Don't worry, they'll tell you...
The people I know with lots of children are the same. It just seems to be how they define themselves.
My mother was the same, she really could have done with a hobby.

I am one of 7 including step and half siblings.

Out of those siblings 6 are in ltr or married and some have children so far it's 2,7,3,3,0,0,0 (there are twins in the family and my sibling with 7 had 2 sets of twins)

I have 3 children, and i was the eldest of the youngest set of siblings. I have 3 older half siblings, which I love and get on pretty well with. The younger ones haven't had kids yet but it isn't all through choice. My mum and dad were in families of 5 and 4 siblings they had very difficult relationships with their families. The only thing I have learned is that every family is completely different, sometimes the chemistry works and you get healthy positive relationships, or at least friendly, but sometimes there is a toxic cocktail of resentment and bad feeling - the number of siblings is just an ingredient not an indication of good or bad.

Also some big brothers/ sisters love being the eldest and helping with the younger ones bossing them others not so much. I am lucky ds1 is a fantastic big bro, he loves his sisters and takes care of them. I don't make him do anything as the children are close in age 4 years between oldest and youngest.

marylin if you asked my DM what my childhood was like she would have a very different opinion from me.
If you asked any parent you would probably get a very different view from their children.

It is certainly not exclusive to large or small families.

The environmental argument always makes me laugh. Its bloody certain that the majority of people who use it didn't take it into consideration at all when they were deciding how many children to have. Its just a lovely smug add-on to use after the fact.

I got lectured on the environment by someone recently. Someone who goes on three long hauls a year and updates his iphone and other gadgets as soon as the new one comes out.

I was one of 4 growing up, and this was the norm (Irish catholic). Actually many around us had 5+.

I don't think you can compare growing up in a large family back then to today. I look back and feel so sad for my mum. She was miserable. She had no car, although she could drive, but second cars didn't exist so dad had the car at work. She couldn't work out side the home. These women were trapped really. There was no such thing as child are. Holidays abroad were unheard of, regardless of the number of children you have.
There was nothing to look forward to.

I have 3 now myself and know many with 4 and more. Kids have after school activities, holidays, school tours, 7 seater cars etc. Yes the noise and chaos can be a factor, but you'll have that in any home with more than one child.

Expecting older children to mind younger ones and do excessive chores is just lazy parenting.

I was one of five siblings and I loved it. As far as I'm aware, the others liked it too, they have always said that they did. Although as our lives have gone in different directions, it hasn't led to us all being best mates in adult life (we're middle aged now) but when a crisis occurs we certainly stick together.

When I read these threads I feel like I am maybe the only person who actually liked being part of a big family.

However, I never felt any desire for one to one attention from my parents, so maybe that is why I never felt neglected?

I only have 1 DC and it's likely to remain that way. There are loads of threads of people saying it's horrible to have an only child.

I think big families are great and I'm sad that I won't have one. I suppose I mean 4 or 5 rather than 10 kids though.

Oh my hairdresser is one of 7 (second eldest) and she loved/ loves it.

"I think children with both no siblings and lots of siblings have a rose-tinted view of what life might have been like if they'd had a different number of siblings."

I totally agree with this ^^
I used to apologise to DD that I couldn't provide a sibling for her, but now, at 16, she says she is glad she doesn't have any. A lot of her friends keep telling her how much they argue with their siblings and there are tales of sibling rivalry and jealousy, so I guess she feels glad that she doesn't have that to deal with.

I worry about the future because we have no family near and she will have to deal with things on her own.