Trump thread 6

[amispartacus]

And it's only been a day since no 5

Your cats are gorgeous zebra!

I'm iller-than-usual so tbh not got anything but the internet. (God that sounds tragic. Not sure adding I have my cats for company improves things either...) I was hoping to be well enough to go to ballet today, but my right hand side is disinclined to work. Possibly an anti-fascist protest? I've had a heart monitor on since Friday too; think maybe I should write on the diary-thingy "quite possible that despite effectively being on bedrest, cardiac wonkiness will feature due to that gobshite Trump"...

Yes squishy. I think when people ask about how this could happen and why there aren't checks and balances in place they forget that we are the checks and balances. The leader in a democracy works for the people and it is our responsibility to hold them to account. It is when they no longer allow or acknowledge disagreement from their citizens that they become dictators.

Cats always improve things zebra!

Trump now whining on twitter that the democrats wont let him have his AG and cabinet.

Has Trump said things that would genuinely fall foul of our hate crime legislation here in the UK? If so, what implications does it have for his visit?

Yes but we don't recognise Right Wing Terrorism in this country.

Its always lone wolfs with mental health issues.

Despite the fact that they infest Twitter and The Daily Mail Comments section.

The fact that Jo Cox's murder is not officially regarded as terrorist tells you everything.

So yes he falls foul of our Hate Crime Laws, but there will be no implications because we embrace this type of right wing rhetoric.

This is what Sir Bill Cash said in parliament yesterday:
The United States Congress and courts, as well as the President and diplomacy, will play a part in arriving at a solution to this question. Does my right hon. Friend accept that there is a universal threat from jihadists? For example, Europol has estimated that up to 5,000 jihadists have come over from several of the relevant countries. Furthermore, we should remember the victims of 9/11 in New York and 7/7 in London, and in Paris, Brussels and Berlin, not to mention Lee Rigby.

Refugees are not jihadists. Those killed on 9/11 were not killed by anyone from the 7 banned countries. Those killed on 7/7 were killed by British citizens.

But don't let that get in the way of a good bit of islamophobia or xenophobia.

See National Security. Always the excuse.

BigBadgers

I am a bit biased, but yes, yes they are. Even the staff at the vets exclaim over how striking they both are; and they have quite the local fan club despite being (through their own choosing) indoor cats... They are also clever little whatnots: they sussed out opening cupboards as kittens, but last summer figured out the fridge so that now has to be locked; & in the Autumn got the hang of the kitchen drawers, so blond!cat will occasionally present me with A Treasure from one of those...

Having proven they are smarter than the current incumbent: #ZebraCatsForPresident! (Well they'd need to job-share given how much sleeping they do... and work from [my] home, obviously. State visit potentially awkward with the corgis. Maybe they could just FaceTime. Or send me? Unlike my younger sister I'd not be at all temped to poke HMQ...)

Liberalism and democracies are intrinsically fragile

I think most of us have become complacent about the democracies we live in.

I'm from a country where we had a dictatorship only 40 years ago. Our checks and balances are still very much at the forefront of our political discourse and in people's minds.
Anything too right wing is illegal.
The press is bound to be impartial and we'd never accept newspaper endorsements of any candidates, for example.
Every single party is given fair TV time during the year and during the campaigns. It doesn't depend on money or who makes the bigger fuss.

It's not perfect, but the truth is that I don't see a current danger of a right wing faction taking over, unlike in many other countries.

The year I sat my finals one of the questions on the Historical Argument & Practice paper was "No Empire is sustainable." (Yes, that's a question...)

There is an argument that America is, in fact, an Empire. If you consider how it was built & the ongoing friction between state & federal government. There's even a Senate, as there was in Rome - and we all know how that ended. Trump does seem to be setting himself up as an Emporer figure. A horse would be a better pick than Sessions. Let's just hope he doesn't [get to] go full Nero.

(Please note, I've done precisely zero history of Empire & did not answer that question. I did one that was something about gender being so blunt an analytical tool as to be useless to historians. What can I say, the phrasing wasn't as catchy. Unlike Can peasants be Nationalists? Discuss.)

Oh & I'm verrrrrrry much not a Classicist either.

I mean, clearly I've the basic knowledge, but So. Not. My. Field.

Which Roman leader is Trump, though?

Caesar?
Octavius Augustus?
or
Nero?
Caligula? (guess why)

Is Putin a Hun?

The year I sat my finals one of the questions on the Historical Argument & Practice paper was "No Empire is sustainable." (Yes, that's a question...)

It's a pity you didn't attempt that one, I would have liked a quick precis of your answer.

Similarly I once saw the statement that no republic lasted for more than 400 years, and I wondered how it related to Empires. The Spanish Empire lasted about that long, ditto the British Empire, and similar I think for the Ottoman Empire.

Jeremy Vine show currently asking to hear from pp who were at the protests yesterday if any of you were?

Nothing lasts forever.
It's a given.

What is happening in the US does look like it will change the Establishment as it was set.
The question is in what way.
Either the checks and balances will work eventually and the need to increase them and improve the US "democracy" will be felt.
Or they will fail and things will get complicated across the world.

Lweji
The worst bits of all of them rolled into one?
And I definitely can't see Putin on MN, but am greatly enjoying the idea of him setting up a sparkly ticker... (Sorry, I know that's not at all what you meant...)

Peregrina
Unfortunately it's now long enough ago that even if any of the other History Girls did it (& IIRC correctly, nobody did) I don't think they'd remember their answer. I have an eidetic memory, so gems like Chopin and double-entry book-keeping are both culture: discuss. tend to stick with me. Because obviously I need them. Thanks brain. Did help with learning almost 1800 pages of source material for one of my Special Subject exams though. (That would be the Paper members of my College were then barred from taking, yes, due to the abysmal teaching & antics like that...)

Liked this

I remember a very bad old joke from the Cold War era.

A Frenchman, a Brit and a Russian are in a bar and discussing their idea of happiness. The Frenchman goes on about a beautiful woman and an evening of fine food and fine wine. The Brit talks about a pint of great beer and the 'thwack' of leather on willow on a sunny afternoon. Then they both turn to the Russian.

Who says 'When I'm woken by the doorbell at 4 in the morning and I go to the door to be faced with a bunch of men in dark clothes who ask me if I'm Mr Whatever. And I can say, with complete honesty, that Mr Whatever lives on the floor beneath me. They go away and I go back to bed. For me, friends, that is 'happiness'.

I think I may have laughed at the time.

My FIL has Alzheimer's.
He started by inappropriate sexual comments and groping. He became a loose cannon: we were never quite sure what would come out of his mouth next - mostly stuff that would have horrified him in his younger days. He is easily manipulated and has lost the power to reason coherently. He will sign anything put in front of him while arguing that it makes sense. He is obsessive over trivia.
Oh, and his balance is going - makes him unsteady on slopes.

I thought of him when I saw the way that Donald Trump clutched Theresa May's hand on Friday. It reminded me of how my MIL supports my FIL these days.

Even last year parallels with Caligula were being drawn: m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/13298230 and www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2016/jun/01/donald-trump-has-fascinating-parallels-with-caligula-says-historian?client=safari

I suspect these would only be strengthened by recent events.

A Stop Trump coalition is being formed:

www.anothereurope.org/huge-rallies-across-the-uk-as-campaigners-form-stand-up-to-trump-coalition/

Our health insurance is now $2800/mo usd. $36000/year!!! You do realise that the insurance companies really run the show, right? They are protected from any regulation because that's the 'American Way'. People lost their homes, their livelihoods AND their lives BEFORE the ACA and they will do so without it. Simply because corporations do what they like. You really think the dude in charge is going to change that?
We need to leave the middle east, repair race relations, employ Americans, stop gangs from Mexico from kidnapping and bringing drugs in. We need affordable Healthcare, jobs, and peace. Obama may have looked like a great guy, but our pay has not increased in 10 years while food and goods $ have trebled Remind me again, just WHO kept wages down? And by ‘repair race relations’ do you mean sweep it back under the carpet now that there is a racist in the WH? And Bannon? No point even going there. Obama as POTUS meant that the issue could no longer be ignored and excused. Now it can continue to be the dirty little secret we pretend isn’t happening. Phew! Oh, and this 'employ Americans' sentiment? DT cares so much about that his fucking inauguration caps were made in China. lol
So if you're "making a decision/statement" by staying away, remember that the media lies and just as Obama is not as good as he looked, Trump is not as bad.
No, he's worse. Way worse. I think the reactions from all around the world show that it's pretty obvious.
Trump is not against LGBT, women...a BUSH administration cousin was the guy who was speaking to him in the private conversation. I have read more dirty things in the DM WTF? That makes his words ok. His intentions. His filthy actions? Trump is a misogynist. That is not an opinion. It is fact. He showed us who he is, as did his voters/supporters. ESPECIALLY those who still support his actions.
I think that you should try to find out what the facts are about the ban that Obama began with by choosing the countries
I understand the facts regarding the actions Obama took in 2011 and I suggest you educate yourself on the difference because it makes you seem a little ignorant to not know them.

Taking time to stop people who are coming from countries who are considered a danger to the US until we can evaluate the system is not bad
You know that Americans haven’t been killed by citizens of those countries right? And that refugees don’t actually pose a threat? The vetting is thorough and lengthy. You know what kills more Americans than terrorists? Fucking armed toddlers. Whatcha doing about that?
We voted for Trump because we do not want to lose our homes for healthcare. GOP is trying to get a real healthcare plan in place. Trump is reaching out to Des to help, who is talking to him??? Now you’re just taking the piss. Your words in this thread explain quite well why you voted for Trump.

Ok folks, here's a task for you. An American (Trump supporter) acquaintance has posted on my Facebook asking (in response to a comment of mine about Trumps Muslim Ban) whether I protested Obama's ban of Iraqi's in 2011.

Anyone have a suitably intelligent, non-aggressive response for him that I can steal?

There was an article in the Washington Post (which annoyingly I can't find) some time in the last day or so, comparing current US politics and Ancient Rome. Their chosen analogue was Caesar - in terms not of nuttiness (which would favour Caligula) but in terms of what's being done to the political system. Caesar didn't remove the senate, he simply attempted to neuter it. So it was still there, they still debated, they just didn't have any real power (though, as it turned out in the end, a lot of daggers). Though Caesar got assassinated (the article didn't draw this parallel, I hasten to add), the damage had been done - the Senate from then on in was a fig-leave; absolute power was wielded by the emperor.

Ethan's you for this thread. Very informative. (And seems more up to date than ms,).

I have opened all the links and now off to read them (except Washington post as have gone over my limit!) lots of other things to google I didn't know about too.