AIBU to expect my children to earn pocket money?

[Notmuchtosay1]

My older 2 boys (13 and 15) have 2 rooms each to clean and tidy to earn pocket money. They have their own bedroom to clean and 1 other room each (oldest has living room, younger has play room) they don't have to vacuum up just put stuff away (which is never much in the living room or playroom) and dust. Both have decided they'd rather have no money than clean. Though occasionally they'll do it if there's something they want to buy. Then 2 jobs they have to do for nothing, they are both expected to put clothes in the wash (and PE kits) and put their lunch box out for me to empty. They throw their clothes on their bedroom floors all week, which I refuse to wash until they are in the basket. Don't ask about PE kits.
My 13 year old keeps telling me IABU he says it's child labour. He shouldn't have to put his clothes in the wash. He definitely shouldn't be expected to do jobs to earn pocket money.
"Apparently" all his friends get pocket money (more than I'm offering) without doing jobs, also most of them have mums that tidy their rooms or or have a cleaner.
I just wondered...what do you guys do? AIBU to expect them to earn their money? Also is £5 weekly stingy? (If they go out with friends, which is rare I do give them spending money, plus they get change for tuck etc at school)

When my 4 DC were children, I wouldn't expect them to "earn" their pocket money. They each had their allowance. I didn't expect and I certainly didn't nag them to help around the house. I would ask them to help me in a task and they would.

I think you are being too nice and over parenting. We lived a mile and a half from nearest neighbour when children were growing up. No pavement, no streetlights. I had a babysitter until oldest was 14 then another 14 year old friend to stay over with her (my youngest was only 7 and twins were 9). From 15 she babysat on her own. Not overnight though and we tend to be home by midnight.

I can really see both sides of this.

I have never tied pocket money to chores, as I feel that they shoudl help around the house because they live in it, and help to make the mess.
I have always felt that by linking it to pocket money you take away the idea that they should be taking responsibility for keeping their environment clean and tidy.

On the other hand work = money in the real world.

We have certain chores that have to be done. If they don't do it, there are consequences. No screens, removal of phones or removal of pocket money. Once the chores are embedded in routine we find they happen, introducing new chores is always a nightmare.

Then we allow them to earn extra pocket money by helping on less regular jobs - mowing the lawn, cleaning the car etc.

Reading your last posts, I would remove x boxes altogether, and they only get them back when they have proved they will do chores and as soon as they slack off, the x box goes. I think with these sort of things there is no discussion - I really don't care how your friend's parents do it, in this house everyone pulls their weight. Help, or you loose your screens. At their age I would be hard line with getting that attitude.

The amount of money really depends on what they are expected to buy with it.
Notso - £130 per month
If they aren't buying clothes or bus fares then £5 is fine. Give according to what you have too.

and please stop laying the breakfast out for a lazy 13 year old!
My 9 year old gets her own cereal out of the cupboard and puts it away!

We don't, and wouldn't, tie pocket money to basic household tasks and personal care.
Most of those things that you've mentioned are jobs for your children (putting their clothes in the wash, packing things away, taking their plate from the table, getting out their lunchbox for washing up) aren't jobs - they're the absolute bare minimum any member of a household should be doing every day and, in the absence of additional needs, should have been working towards being able to do since the time they could walk.
It sounds like a tricky situation for you now - how to change things now that the children are older..?

We never tied pocket money to chores. They get pocket money. They help clean because we all live in the house and we are all responsible for keeping it clean and tidy

Totally agree.

steppemum why the ?

The boys who live out on farms where I live are generally out helping dad every single day from the age of 13/14 on top of the basic chores.

Things like tidying room etc are clearly their own personal job - to me things like lunch might depend on if they're out on the farm. E.g. Plenty of my friends worked on family and honestly they probably werent setting the table etc, but they were also out the door whenever it was light and would also have worked almost all day every day through the summer holidays!

I think not tying chores to pocket money can be a good plan: so not giving them extra money etc on a regular basis, but also the sole consequence of chores not being done shouldn't be money. Living rurally, wifi off and no lifts were my parents most effective techniques for getting obedience. They would also sometimes offer to pay for jobs and sometimes not but honestly, most of the time we didn't take the payment because we knew how hard they worked.

My boys aren't interested in the farm. I think they are lucky living on a farm. They won't really go out there. They would rather be indoors. The oldest did start tractor work last summer, helping cart the bales and other driving jobs. He got paid for those. He has helped with a few more physical jobs. He doesn't mind helping if asked, but wouldn't volunteer. Dad doesn't encourage them out though. He says farms aren't safe for children.
It sounds like most of you think it's best to give them pocket money anyway. Then take away other things. I've tried turning wifi off and they just turn it on again! Also to the person that said don't put cereal out, I've tried that and he went with no breakfast. He said he will tell school I wouldn't let him have breakfast. I said that's fine, tell them that. Always the middle son that causes the problems.
I think £5 is enough though. As I said I buy clothes, top up phones, provide money for outings, provide tuck money. They don't have lots of clothes though. But if they want something special clothes wise, if I can afford it I'll get it for them. Must admit they I'm glad they aren't too bad with wanting new clothes. Middle son likes his football kits, which are usually bought for birthdays.
Thanks for everyone's views.

Most of the things you are describing are not 'jobs', OP. Putting your own clothes in a pile for someone else to wash isn't a 'job'. Putting your own lunchbox on the table for someone else to empty isn't a 'job'. Do they think bending over so you can wipe their backsides is work too? I think you need to recalibrate their idea of their responsibilities!

Report you for child labour because you asked him to pick his clothes off the floor and pour his own cereal!?!?

Jesus wept!

Don't tell me you are genuinely afraid of that threat?

He's sounds bone idle, immature and spoilt.

Any more attempts at blackmail would result in loss of internet. Turn it off and change the password. When he's picked his clothes up off the floor he can have wifi access. Any more nonsense and he gets grounded.

Toughen up, OP.

You turn off the wifi and they turn it back on again...

No nice way to say this OP - you are sounding really wet

Come on, take control and be the parent here.

Let him go to school with no breakfast. Of course he's happy to do that, because you've given him bloody tuck money on top of his pocket money! If my child said that to me, I'd laugh and say "good luck telling them that you couldn't get the milk and cereal out yourself like a primary aged kid can".

And change the flipping wifi code!

Also -- sounds like middle son is attention seeking. Does he get any one to one time with you or DH? Sometimes middle children feel very hard done by and bad behaviour is them looking for reassurance.

Do you get any support from your DH? It sounds like you are dealing with a quite serious level of laziness and contempt from your middle boy. Where is his dad in all this?

I wouldn't expect my children to earn pocket money. However I would expect them to help because they want to

OP - why are you putting cereal and milk out for a 13 year old?

No of course I'm not bothered by him saying he will report me for child labour. It's hilarious.
Yes they turn the wifi back on. Not if I stand guard. But if I leave the office they switch it on again.
None of them get much 121 time with either of us. OH is always working so I have the kids. Though middle son I take to football training one eve, so we have the 25 min drive together (then home journey) youngest has an hour with me in the morning after the older 2 have left, then another hour after school.
OH works daylight hours. So this time of year he's in in the eves from about 6pm but summer the kids don't see him much in the eves as he comes in about 10pm. He does come in for lunch every day. Usually he comes in for half hour for evening meal in the summer too. So we almost always sit together for evening meal. Which is nice as a lot of Dads can't be in for lunch.
Middle son has just come down and I've told him pocket money is now separate to chores. I said he can have £5 every week. But I said I want his clothes put in the wash and his room tidied up as a must do chore. I said he has to do other jobs to help when asked or wifi will get turned off or iPad/Xbox removed. He said good idea but only if he has £10 weekly otherwise he's not doing the chores! Ha ha. He tries anything. He'll have £10 today anyway as he's going out with friends. But he's been told he's got to pick all his clothes up and pack his bag as he's going on a sleepover. The place where his going for a sleep over, the mum does everything when she's there. She even helped my son put his trainers and did the laces up! My son asked why I can't be more like her! She does work full time though, so the son does have to get his lunch. She sometimes makes them lunch before she goes to work though. It's mum's like her that don't help.
Oh and they only get £2 weekly for tuck. So missing breakfast and buying tuck wouldn't work. They don't but tuck very often. But the money is there incase. I don't want him going without breakfast as he is very small and thin. He's 13 but only 7cm taller than his 7 year old brother. So breakfast is important. I can control breakfast. I can't do much when his lunch box comes home uneaten. He only nibbles bits of it. So breakfast is a must. He's rarely hungry though.

DD (age 10) can earn up to £10 a week. For every job she helps me with or good thing she does at school she gets a point which is worth £2. She can earn up to five points and they're cashed in on Saturday. Usually she just earns 2 or 3 points. I can't take any points off her, no matter what she does.

We both agree that this is a much better system than pocket money, which I used to stop if she was rude etc. This is much more positive, as she earns the money and can't lose it.

You need to nip this negotiating thing in the bud. It's funny on its own without the rest of it, but taken with the whole story it smacks of disrespect. I would just tell him I had just told him how this was going to work, question it again and it gets reduced to zero. And repeat. Change the wi fi password. If necessary remove other privileges - football lifts would be a start. He sounds like he needs a firmer hand.

"It's mums like her that don't help"?

Really?

Can you not see that you are just as indulgent as that mum, but in different ways?

Don't blame other parents - blame your own approach!

My daughter has two homes, different rules in each, different level of what she's expected to do, different pocket money. She can cope perfectly well with expectations of her - and she's 9!

It's mums like her who don't help

With respect, OP, you are focusing on the wrong thing here. You are the boss in your house. Who gives a crap what other mums do or don't do? You need to set the standard that what you say goes - don't be afraid to say 'because I said so'. He is 13, not the President of the Oxford Union - don't enter into debate!

No I don't blame the other mum. He knows things are different in different houses. But it does make him worse. It makes me question whether I'm a bad mum making them do stuff. Annoyingly he spends a lot of time worrying about what others have that he doesn't have (he has plenty) all I get is "so and so has and MacBook Pro or so and so has got lots of Xbox games, or someone has a bigger tv, or bigger house" I've told him to respect what he does have. Now the conversation gets ignored as I got fed up with it. I do still get "so and so gets £15 a week pocket money" I just say tough to that one. Thankfully the oldest never says stuff like that and appreciates what he has.
I'm going to start taking things away if jobs don't get done. It's not worked saying if they do jobs they get pocket money as they decided they'd rather have no money. So I'll give the £5 but enforce other jobs. Not sure they'll get done. But I'll try. I think I'm only asking the bare minimum. They've even got laundry baskets in their rooms so it's not hard to put clothes in. Middle son is doing stuff now as he wants to go out. But he's only put half stuff away and is blaming the younger brother for other mess in his room. But if it's not done he won't go. He's only got 20 mins left as well.
I've got no idea how to change the wifi password either. It's written on the bt hub. Great idea if I knew how.

BertandRussell - How do you do it? I always worry with DSS because I'm only SM don't want to be crossing lines.

It makes me question whether I'm a bad mum making them do stuff

Of course not!

Notso - £130 per month is a huge amount of money.
I don't spend that much 'pocket money' not even half!

Obviously it depends on what she is expected to buy from that, but the was because it is a lot of money. When she leaves home and is paying rent etc, it is very very unlikely she will have that much pocket money.