Or is this PE teacher unreasonable about periods

[BigSandyBalls2015]

DD(15) is doing GCSE PE. Part of this involves 'personal survival' which takes place in local swimming pool.

The school obv need to book this, can't just turn up, but DD queried what would happen if some of the girls had their period at the time. PE teacher (female) replied that they'd obviously have to use a tampon, they can't miss it, can't arrange another day. A few girls told her they didn't use/get on with tampons and she got annoyed saying they'd have to get on with it on the day as no other option.

No... obviously I'm not saying exercise is only about obesity...

I'm saying most children get much much more actual exercise not in PE which is half an hour of forced activities that don't reflect a healthy lifestyle and don't teach children anything at all about health and often actually leave children resentful and humiliated so can be counter productive.

I'm saying obesity is one of the things that is usually cited as the reason for PE, but what I think would be more productive is real education about actual holistic health and probably age restrictions on things like energy drinks.

Offred: All sounds very grand, but what you are really suggesting is less exercise, isn't it?

The problem is that this is for their gcse assessment which is worth 60 % of their grade. They have to offer four sporting skills. Quite a lot of schools offer life saving as one of these because most students have one or two sports that they are good at but not four. Life saving offers a good way of getting an A and also involves working as a team thus it's used a bit. The grades need to be submitted in a very specific time frame so the teachers only have a small window to assess everybody and submit grades before the moderator comes. The moderator can select any child and any sport to view so could in theory select to see the lifesaving.

Therefore, it's not as easy to say they should have an alternative date. Unfortunately, the PE Teacher is under huge stress to get these students the best grades possible. Generally, they are a certain breed who can be quite tough because they have had to be in their own sport - most have competed at county level or above so I can understand the short shrift. That being said, it's a problem for girls but perhaps quite a few are having to offer life saving because they don't have another sporting option. It's a real shame because I can understand young girls not wanting to use tampons and then being very conscious of leakage, etc but if it is a genuine concern then the student is going to have to offer something else such as fitness.

No, what I am suggesting is to stop forcing high school children to do PE and give them proper actual scientific and credible education about health, exercise and nutrition and you might find you end up with healthier kids with healthier lifestyles who do more exercise every day.

Offred: And as I have said, schools don't work like that. PE is either a subject on the curriculum or it isn't. Your approach means less exercise.

I mean it is called physical education but what actual education do you get? One hour made up of humiliating changing and showering in front of other people with no privacy and half an hour of having hockey sticks smashed into your shins, balls deliberately thrown at your face or being shouted at to run by an overweight lazy teacher.

You are assuming doing PE means you actually get exercise. You can't force a high school child to actually exercise in PE even if you have it on the curriculum.

Some schools really need to understand that just making kids be present in lessons is not educating them. You have to get them to want to engage. Then they get the benefit of the lesson.

Offered: I am not saying PE is perfect, but very few things are. You are projecting your experiences massively, btw. I loved PE. But that isn't the point. The point is that your approach would mean less exercise for most children - really not good for them.

Offered it's not schools or teachers it's the government 'we' voted for. The government tells schools what to teach.

If you are angry please join the teaching unions in objecting to government interference. You, as a voter, bear as much responsibility for the current state of affairs as the school.

I understand that you are making the point that removing the compulsory element would result in children getting less exercise actual exercise. I am saying you can't make that statement as though it is a fact. High school children have much more control over their health and lifestyle than primary school children and I'd even go so far as saying that the bullying and humiliation often in PE can actually cause children to view all exercise outside PE lessons as traumatic and off putting meaning they get less exercise.

I loved PE in primary, I don't think I am the only person who only realised in their thirties that it wasn't exercise or sports I hated but that I was just totally off out by high school PE.

I've never voted Tory and am (now, since they seemed to be shrugging off neoliberal centrism) in the Labour Party and have actually run a local activist organisation that ended up being featured on the BBC and reported on internationally so I think it is ridiculous to suggest I bear responsibility for other people voting for the Tories... don't think you will find many of them up here in Merseyside either...

Offred: I am making that statement as if it is a reasonable assumption. Children who aren't getting sufficient exercise out of school aren't going to suddenly start exercising because they stopped doing so in school. They aren't exercising because of laziness, lack of parental time (culture of excessive working hours), reduction in outdoor space, preoccupation with safety so reduced time out of doors, availability of technology etc. These reasons are cultural. If you remove PE you will (probably) make these kids even less healthy. Very bad idea.

I agree that it is a cultural problem. That really is why I think forced exercise is not the solution but education to change the culture and support personal responsibility for their own health.

Even if you don't think we should get rid of actual compulsory exercise I think you will agree that it is absolutely shocking that there is no real requirement for education re health, exercise and nutrition to be based on correct information.

Schools are given complete freedom to determine what they think is 'healthy' which is what lead to my younger ones' primary buying in Gary Rhodes' enterprise to teach the kids to make a 'healthy' dessert which actually when you looked at the ingredients contained a whole weeks worth of sugar.

And yes I did complain to the school and the LA who responded that it is the school who are responsible for determining their teaching of what is healthy.

But I had to repeatedly explain to my kids why the sugar made it unhealthy and how just because something contains (tinned) fruit it didn't automatically mean it was healthy no matter what they were taught in school.

"What do you think girls who are serious swimmers do? "

I'd imagine they use tampons. But that's just the thing. If you are one of those girls/women who just can't use tampons, then you don't become a serious swimmer (in much the same way that people who have tiny hands are less likely to go in for serious piano-playing and people who are prone to knee strain don't become serious runners, etc.).

I don't think you can force a girl to stick things in her vag that she is not comfortable with. It is a very personal decision.

Maybe the girls should threaten to free-bleed in the pool....?

"You are assuming doing PE means you actually get exercise. You can't force a high school child to actually exercise in PE even if you have it on the curriculum."

Those whom the OP was concerned about will be training steadily in PE as they have opted for it as a GCSE subject, and have managed their periods throughout the two years preparation for the fixed-day assessment.

By the way, it is extremely difficult to get kids to exercise if they are absolutely determined not to.

We used to do rounders. I used to waggle the bat vaguely in the direction of the ball (never actually hitting it), then waddle sllooooowwwly to first base so that I would get "out." For fielding, my friends and I used to work out where the ball was least likely to go, and stand there in a huddle, gossiping and bitching. The PE teacher would repeatedly yell at us to "spread out! Go over there!" We would slowly shuffle off, a bit... then shuffle back into aforementioned huddle the moment her attention was diverted. We already knew from experience that eventually, the teacher just gives up.

Hockey, ditto. We just messed about and avoided going near the ball.

Swimming was quite easy because during a group swimming lesson few people are actually doing anything at any given moment in time.

I was quite active in badminton because I actually liked badminton. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have done a thing in badminton either.

PE teacher is probably fed up to the back teeth of teenage girls whose use having a period (whether they have one or not) as an excuse to avoid anything they don't want to do- particularly PE.
They bring notes from home signed by parents saying they can't do PE as they have their period.
They bring 'notes from home' actually written by themselves or friends saying the same.
They turn up and refuse to do PE because they have a period and don't feel well or have 'come through'
They demand to go home because their period has started and they have 'come through'
They avoid field trips with the same notes as above
They demand to go to the toilet in every lesson for 'women's problems' which they particularly make a fuss about with male teachers.
They appear to have periods every week.
They are adept at the 'What if' questions to help them plan their dramas. I was taking a group to the Lake District. It was voluntary but one wanted to go but not do any of the activities because she did not like rain or mud or getting wet- typical LD weather. I said she could not go in that case. She then changed her mind and said she would do them. As the trip got closer she began to ask questions like 'Miss what if someone is on their period- would they still have to go on the walk?'
'Yes.'
'But what if they had cramp?'
'They would need to take a couple of painkillers.'
'But what if they needed to change while they were out.'
'Well we would organise that - we will never be away from a village, youth hostel or pub for more than two hours so there will always be a loo near.'
'What if someone sprained their ankle the day before?'
'They won't be able to go in that case'.
She went and did it all and had a great time but you get the picture.

No doubt some are genuine but it is a point if manipulation with many others. Teacher will be trying to pre-empt the excuses.

Well, my friends and I were PE avoiders (well, other than the badminton) because of the horrible teachers, embarrassing uniforms (microscopic pleated skirts, yikes), ritual humiliation, and the sheer pointlessness of it all. Even if you participated as hard as you could, you still wouldn't get more than a couple of minute's exercise during the average rounder session.

Trifle of course it is OK for us not to agree! I am not a dictator!

But I am saying being female is normal for 50% of population and having periods is almost 100% applicable for teen and post teen females unless they are ill, underweight or pregnant.

So every single month it is totally normal for half the school population to bleed for 4-7 days. And for some, of this 50%, periods will be so painful, heavy or difficult those girls will not be able to swim or do PE. With or without a tampon, it is totally their choice to use or not to use.

This is normal.

And the way you and some have been talking to me suggests that this is a problem for the girls and for teaching/schools.

Where as I say this is a reality. A bit like the fact the humans cannot breath under water.

Can you imagine if the swim teacher came to swim classes with an oxygen tank, (or maybe they were even a fish!) and half the swim class also had oxygen tanks but the teacher made the half the human swimmers without oxygen tanks feel bad because they had to take their face out of the water to breath?

Women are penalised for a biological reality that is not their 'fault' and is actually a part of all of us (all born of women) even existing. That is how biased education is against females.

bonbonours no one has suggested life stops because you have a period.

If you cannot see why some cannot or do not wish to use tampons I guess you have not read much of this thread. Read back a few pages and it should be clear.

As a female you may also choose to wonder why our biology, essential for human life on this planet, is used against us.

Also, as a female, why do you may wish to label as lazy any girl who wishes to avoid PE?

Plenty of people are lazy. If women had not been shamed into silence about a totally normal biological function maybe it would be easier to explain when periods became problematic for individual girls.

Then instead of ridicule and accusations of laziness the system of education could equally advantage those with female biology. Just a thought.

Flying,"The grades need to be submitted in a very specific time frame so the teachers only have a small window to assess everybody and submit grades before the moderator comes. The moderator can select any child and any sport to view so could in theory select to see the lifesaving."

Who decided on all these short time tables?

Why have exam boards been allowed to get away with things that disadvantages females for so long. Why are PE teachers not feeding back to exam boards that the short time frames potentially disadvantage girls?

The education in this country is funded by the tax payer. Half the population of this country and half the school population are female. Why is this system allowed to continue and why are so many females defending it?

If you work for a school and see this disadvantaging some/any girls why have you not alerted anyone higher up the food chain? Maybe you have. What happened when you did?

If I want to raise this issue who should I write to?

So if you care reading this and you are a man try and think how you would feel if having balls somehow made playing a particular sport (that you liked playing) difficult and an easy remedy were possible, and yet women choose not to allow you to do this and other men defended them - how would you feel?

If you are female reading this and yet still defending these systems that see periods as being a girls personal problem- why are you doing that still?

Italiangreyhound: And I am no unsympathetic to the minority of girls who struggle to manage periods for whatever reason, but finding solutions needs to be approached in a realistic manner. This thread is making it clear that some people have very extreme attitudes and expect schools to do the impossible.