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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To stay in the school catchment of a Church school when we are athiests

108 replies

greenlinesrunsmooth · 26/01/2017 17:46

Sorry if this is a long one but don't want to drip-feed, if you manage to get through it then Brew

I am agnostic and DH athiest, neither of us can stand the idea of organised religion and cringe at the idea of DD being forced to worship in morning, say grace at lunch and pray before home-time which is what the SIAMS report says the school does. I know all schools do collective worship and have an element of prayar, but this seems to be more? Only problem is I love this area, we have been living here for years, I feel why should I be kicked out of an area I love because of the church. It actually really really pisses me off that people can be discriminated against based on this. The actual school in question has community places too, its 70/30, so we would have no problem getting in but I don't want DD to be taught in an overly religious environment.

The only other option is a community school that is in special measures and is really really rough. I walked past with DD in a pushchair and looked into the playground to see how the kids were playing and a parent collecting their child hollered 'paedo!!! paedo!!' at me. FFS, a mother with a pushchair harmlessly walking along, seriously warped. He also looked like he was on drugs as his eyes were rolling all over the place. And i have heard of police being called to the school to restrain parents who have tried to beat up teachers, in one case the parent was angry at a teacher for 'giving her child knits' and throttled her against a wall - this was related to hallucinations on drugs apparently. This is the norm at this school. Sad

Going back to the church school, on the SIAMS report it said a boy came home and told his mum 'I worked hard today to make God happy', and another said 'I did X so that Jesus would love me'. My DH said he would feel sick if DC came home saying this, no disrespect to people who have faith but if you aren't religious then it's really hard to swallow Sad

AIBU to think I can cringe and bare it? Will it get better with time? Should we move? I LOVE this town, love the friends I have made here. Don't want to leave!

Anyone been in this situation and can tell me how it worked out? Any good stories or equally if it really didn't work out it would be good to know, we can still move at the moment as DD is only 6 months...

As a disclaimer, I don't mean to cause offense to anyone who does have faith, so please don't take it that way. I know it is a highly personal matter and I have plenty of friends who do have faith who are lovely people, it's just not what we want for our child. If she chose to be religious in the future than fine but we don't want it forced on her at such a young age...

OP posts:
Chloe84 · 26/01/2017 18:38

Not being nasty, just pointing out that OP doesn't have to lie because she has the luxury of being near a school that will likely accept her DD.

I wonder if she would also 'find God' if that wasn't the case, like others.

Original poster
greenlinesrunsmooth · 26/01/2017 18:39

Thanks hackmum, we might just have to leave, there is one other community school but we haven't considered it because the catchment is only two streets (we are in London), the streets are composed of terraces with most people renting to get in (before decanting back home) as they are trying to avoid the church school or the sink community school! The situation is ridiculous.

We can't be bothered with all the upheaval of renting and moreover think it's morally objectionable even though it is 'the done thing' round here.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 26/01/2017 18:40

there is a small possibility of change when the queen dies - she is a believer so no-one has the balls to get rid of enforced religion while she is alive.

as the next two kings show no evidence of belief, hopefully enforced worship will go.

you can withdraw your kid from it all, and counteract the indoctrination at home.

Reiltin · 26/01/2017 18:45

I'd move. We're in Ireland and if my kids don't get into the secular/church of Ireland, I'll home-school. We def don't want them in a catholic school. We strongly disagree with their ethos.

BarchesterFlowers · 26/01/2017 18:46

Our only catchment school is CofE. No choice here, I wouldn't worry too much about it. By year 3 DD had decided it was a story, just like a fairy story, some people believe in fairies, some don't.

DCs will have formed their own opinion by secondary school, or sooner in our case. Nothing wrong with being exposed to it imo as firm non believers. The world is full of religion and there is always going to be some exposure. It forms a very small part of the school day and religious or not a caring ethos whatever it is dressed up as is a good thing.

originalmavis · 26/01/2017 18:51

As long as they aren't teaching creationism I really wouldn't care.

Sadly the church schools around here are bloody hard to get into as they are very very good. I see girls in headscarves trot along to the schools, so I can't really see religion being all that much of a problem.

selsigfach · 26/01/2017 18:53

Yes because home-schooling is just so easy to do, what with needing to pay the mortgage and children heeding to socialise instead of hanging out with mum all day.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 26/01/2017 19:01

It will be absolutely fine, my children went to a c of e school even though we are atheists because it was the local school. Nothing ever forced on them- school Christian values are the same values that all decent people hold. There were a few extremist types but not enough that my DD would ever notice. They are both teens and neither believe.
I now work in a C of E primary. Again, absolutely fine. More hymns and church than your average school and definitely more religious stuff on walls but lots of children tell me they don't believe. Kids are pretty casual about this sort of thing unless parents are in to the whole thing.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 26/01/2017 19:02

No average state school in UK would teach creationism. Even RE has all religions.

BoomBoomsCousin · 26/01/2017 19:10

OP we're an atheist family and I am also really annoyed when my taxes go to fund schools that my children aren't welcome in because of their lack of religious belief. We were previously in an area where we would be unlikely to get a school place because all the schools we were within catchment for were over subscribed religious schools which did not have community places ring fenced.

We moved and got our children in to a non-denominational school. They were still taught Christianity as fact and came home spouting religious nonsense. You can withdraw from religious worship, even in a church school, though that Others your child so it's not ideal either. I take heart from the fact that I and virtually all my friends went to church schools when we were young, and now, along with most of the UK we have rejected the nonsense they taught in terms of having to believe in their god.

It sucks. It would be far better if state schools focused on a more robust and universal basis for living an ethical life and didn't champion the practice of religious discrimination. But I don't think it needs to be harmful for your DC in the long term if they get sensible input at home. You may have to grin and bear the odd foray into religious showmanship and questioning, but they'll come out with some corkers about all sorts of things during their school careers.

CactusFred · 26/01/2017 19:10

I'm an atheist but I have no issue with my ds starting the c of e school in September.

That said, there's no way he's going near the catholic one!

I went to a c of e school and I never bought into any of it. Let them decide for themselves.

NaturalBlondeYeahRight · 26/01/2017 19:12

Yes Catholic is a whole different ball game!

refusetobeasheep · 26/01/2017 19:16

I think you will have to move considering you are so against both schools you are likely to get into.

Putsomepeasonit · 26/01/2017 19:17

Yabu. I had the same worries before dc started at a c of e school because of how religious it can be. They've come home a few times and said I did such and such for god and we talked about how some people believe god is real and some don't and so on. It's really not a big deal.

MuteButtonisOn · 26/01/2017 19:17

as the next two kings show no evidence of belief, hopefully enforced worship will go.

Charles might not be a believer, I don't know, but he's a complete religious apologist with an appalling grasp of religions' history.

OP I'm an atheist and there is no way my child would attend any school where faith trumped fact. My child attended a multifaith multicultural school and came home one day to tell me about when there was only one man on the earth. Hmm

DonaldStott · 26/01/2017 19:19

I'd move. I was raised catholic and school was bloody odd when I think back. Going to confession at 7 years old (to confess what?!!!) Making communion, dressing up as a mini bride and pledging to love god. Fucking weird. Being taught by a really wicked nun. Praying about 3 times a day.

Not much better in high school.

It's all a bit, well, bizarre.

Original poster
greenlinesrunsmooth · 26/01/2017 19:20

Thanks for all the responses.

What worries me is that the school has a parent's prayer group and apparently some parents complained when they weren't praying enough! Also one of the parents who is very active in the church community and always bangs on about how they are inclusive told me when we were discussing candidates for the mayoral election that 'I'm sorry, but I can't vote for Khan because he is a Muslim' so not very open 'to all faiths and none then'? I have seen a lot of hypocrisy around this school and the people who attend it....

Might just have to start looking for another area, it's such a pain!

OP posts:
Graceymac · 26/01/2017 19:21

My dds go to as a catholic school in Ireland. I am English and a non practicing (non believing Protestant). There are children of other faiths in this he school, the principle is sensible and certainly not a religious fanatic. I have no issues with it. It's a good school and is the best not school
In my village. I think you can buy into the religious aspect as much or as little as you want to. My only concern is that they get a good education. My dcs are hardly brain washed and barely even talk about religion.

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 26/01/2017 19:23

If you give your child a strong mind and will of her own then you don't have to worry about her being "indoctrinated" I went to a strongly Catholic School with many atheists who still don't believe twenty years later.

Churches would be a lot more full if the worries of many parents were real.

At the end of the day you have a chance at getting your DD into a good school. It could be worse, many people only have the choice between sink and sink.

An aside, it's interesting that you should say that kindness, generosity etc should not be the sole remit of the believers. No it shouldn't be...sounds like your sink school could take a few hints from the religious one though...

simplysarcastic · 26/01/2017 19:25

OP both my children attend a church school where they say Grace at Lunch and a prayer at the end of the day...

At lunch

Thank you for the world so sweet,
Thank you for the food we eat,
Thank you for the birds that sing,
We're thanking you for everything.

And the home prayer

We've had a busy day at school and now it's time to say, a great big thank you from us all for this and every day.

Would those bother you? If so, move house.

Coloursthatweremyjoy · 26/01/2017 19:27

If you already hate it as much as you seem to...move...seems a bit drastic (I just moved, won't be doing that again in a hurry!). We are out in the sticks and have a lot of Londoners move to the area, they all seem pleased at the lack of search arches for weapons in our secondary schools. Strikes me that religion might be the least of your worries.

pieceofpurplesky · 26/01/2017 19:34

So there are actually three community schools in catchment then? And you anger is only focussed on the one church one?
My DS went to a c of e primary. It was a lovely education just like the one I had. Many of my friends from school are atheists and agnostics, some are Christian. You need to pick the school that your child will flourish in

Original poster
greenlinesrunsmooth · 26/01/2017 19:35

simplysarcastic If that's the kind of thing they say then no it wouldn't bother me at all. I have no idea what they mean by 'worship', having visited the church affiliated to the school years ago when I was 'curious' about religion, they said things like 'we are not fit to eat the crumbs beneath the table where Jesus eats'. This is weird, it instils a feeling of inferiority in people and makes them think they are 'born sinful', this is what I am worried about. I have no idea what the prayers will be like, and can only think they will be in line with the affiliated church?

And colours we do eventually plan to move out of London for secondary but wanted to be near friends/family for primary

OP posts:
123yourusername · 26/01/2017 19:35

I went to a CofE school and had all the Jesus rubbish- assembly in the morning, prayers at lunch and before home. Never affected me and I never believed in Jesus. I think as long as it's a good school in other ways then it doesn't really matter about saying a few meaningless words as a class.

Wheredidallthejaffacakesgo · 26/01/2017 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.