To have told the to licence man to piss off?

[DontGoRhiannonStay]

I have phoned them so many times and told them we don't need a licence. I have a no licence needed declaration.
So when this guy stood on my doorstep and tried to read me some
Sort of "rights" was IBU to tell him to piss off before shutting the door on him? (It felt amazing)

You were not being unreasonable. TV Licensing has an extremely bad track record (up to and including assaults and rapes on householders). Any TV Licensing person must know this and should therefore expect to be treated accordingly.

Starting the interaction with you by reading you 'your rights' is a harassment technique, nothing more. There is no need to do this and it wouldn't mean anything in the magistrates' court (which would be where any case against you would end up). TV Licensing 'officers' are simply employees of a private company, nothing more.

You don't need to interact with these people, and you really shouldn't. If you give them any information at all, they are likely to use it to harass you further. For proof of this, Google 'TV Licensing harassment' or suchlike - and I certainly know this myself first-hand. Foolishly, when a (male) TV Licensing/Capita employee turned up at my (very rural and isolated) cottage one evening, after dark, I let him in. He was extremely unpleasant to me, despite the fact that I was alone, I was painting (as in decorating), and the television was tucked under the stairs, without an aerial, and when switched on showed only 'snow'. I later received an official letter from TV Licensing telling me that, as the 'officer' had found a television 'installed' I was going to be taken to court.

I fought back in no uncertain terms, by letter, and was finally awarded £50 in compensation and was asssured that I wouldn't be troubled by them again for a period (three years? I can't remember now). A week or so later the whole thing started again. I fought back again. Another £50 compensation. Ridiculous nonsense.

When I moved I telephoned TV Licensing to inform them I didn't need a licence, and was treated with great rudeness by the woman to whom I spoke. Her attitude was "You're lying, and we're going to come and visit you unless you pay a licence fee". I complained very strongly (by letter) and received a letter of apology from 'TV Licensing' (Capita).

Since then I have refused to deal with TV Licensing at all and, when they come to the door, they are given very short shrift. If they try and bully me (and they do), they get the full-on screaming harridan bit. If they are ever unwise enough to stand their ground after that, I am not going to be responsible for the consequences.

I follow various blogs on this subject, and occasionally Write Letters (MPs, the BBC Trust, newspapers, etc.) because I think the way TV Licensing are allowed to act is setting a dangerous precedent. I for one certainly don't want to live in a world where people can come to the door and demand entry and demand proof that you are innocent. Ask anyone who lived in Berlin in 1939 what that kind of thing leads to...

OP, you might find this interesting:
tv-licensing.blogspot.com/

After my father died I cancelled the tv licence ( we didn't have free ones here at the time ) .
The TV licensing people would not leave it alone despite letters and tearful phone calls. Eventually I used a thick black marker pen and scrawled over one of the threatening letters " My dad has died. He continues to be dead. If, by any miracle, he ceases to be dead and starts watching TV again I will be sure to let you know. In the meantime please FUCK OFF "
I returned the letter to them and heard nothing more.

"Even more so because they are over 75 and exempt."

Actually they're not.

If they watch/record live TV (or watch BBC I-Player), they require a licence, albeit a free one.

"TV Licensing has an extremely bad track record (up to and including assaults and rapes on householders)."

Not forgetting, falsifying evidence.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lies-of-licence-officer-1658210

To be fair, 1 dodger/ hour is a lot as it takes about 10 minutes to check then walk to the next house and wait to see if anyone opens the door etc. Doesn't excuse what he did, but it shows that the company is nasty to its own employees even.

Why is there an assumption that anyone who says they don't watch TV has to be smug? Isn't it just one leisure activity among many?

I don't go to the gym. I am not smug about it, clearly there is nothing morally superior about not going to the gym, but I wouldn't want to be chased for a gym subscription either- seeing as I don't go to the gym. And if anyone tried to convince me that surely there must be some reason why I owe a gym subscription, I would feel perfectly within my rights to point out that, no actually I don't because I don't go the gym.

I watch the telly (rather a lot, as it so happens). I pay for it. For roughly 40 years of my life I had no access to a telly. So I didn't pay. Nothing odd about that, is there?

As for the people suggesting it is all the non-subscribers' fault for not letting the inspector in, how happy would you be for your 85yo mother (or even your 20yo daughter) to let in an unannounced stranger whose credentials she might find it difficult to check? I am a fairly confident and trusting person, but I can't say I'd be overjoyed.

Fine to not want the licence but nasty to tell the poor bloke to piss off. He's just doing his job.

"To be fair, 1 dodger/ hour is a lot as it takes about 10 minutes to check then walk to the next house and wait to see if anyone opens the door etc."

If you don't like the employment conditions, don't take the job.

You've also got to wonder, how many more innocent people have been convicted, due to falsified evidence, that wasn't detected.

"Fine to not want the licence but nasty to tell the poor bloke to piss off. He's just doing his job."

Pretty disgusting job, going door to door, accusing people of committing a crime, based on no evidence whatsoever.

Oh look it's the usual suspects who turn up in any licence thread acting like they've been accused of murder.

This is an ordinary person doing an ordinary job for not very good money. They get abused, spat on and all sorts. They are not bailiffs, they are not the police. Have a bit of humanity and get off your high horse.

If you don't want a TV licence, don't get one, but don't take it out on the staff. You're well within your rights to politely ask them to leave you alone and close the door.

I'm going hazard a guess BabychamSocialist, that you've not been on the receiving end of their lies, threats and intimidation?

As I said before its not what I am confusing but what he said. He told me that as I had been found to have a TV without a licence which is a criminal offence that he had to read that, that it was the same as the police etc. I had just moved in after taking my premature baby home, I'd been at my parents house for awhile because of mine and baby's health so was very stressed and been under the impression for 8 years that it's on my record.

I watch tv and have a licence but I know of several incidents that have happened to friends and family where these door steppers have behaved appallingly to elderly and disabled people. It's disgusting. I think it should be subscription/password based the tech is there to scramble no need for all the harassment.

From the official website

www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-administering-the-licence-fee-AB20

"Enquiry officers do not have any legal powers to enter your home without a search warrant granted by a magistrate (or sheriff in Scotland)"

"You have no obligation to grant entry to an enquiry officer if you don’t wish to do so."

"TV Licensing can only enter your home without your permission if authorised to do so under a search warrant granted by a magistrate (or sheriff in Scotland). A magistrate (or sheriff in Scotland) has discretion to grant a search warrant for authorised persons to search premises suspected of illegal activity in respect of TV licensing. It is an offence to intentionally obstruct a person exercising the warrant (see section 366(8) of the Communications Act 2003). TV Licensing will be accompanied by the police when executing a search warrant." Even police officers need to provide evidence to a sheriff/magistrate to obtain a warrant. Just not having a licence or even owning a tv or having an external satellite dish or aerial is not sufficient evidence (summary of what's said elsewhere on this page).

"No. Enquiry officers are not the police and do not have police powers.
Enquiry officers have regard to the PACE Codes of Practice or Scottish criminal law (depending on where the address is) when questioning people."

"When taking statements, enquiry officers shall have regard to the PACE Codes of Practice or Scottish criminal law (depending on where the address is). In accordance with this, enquiry officers caution the individual concerned of their legal rights before taking a statement if the individual still wishes to give a statement." But if you've not indicated you're willing to give a statement they have no call to caution you (read you your rights)

"they do not have any power to arrest or detain people, enter premises or seize property." Yet I've heard on several occasions of tvl officers claiming they do have these rights.

And after all that it seems only around 5% of people without a licence are breaking the law!

If you don't want a TV licence, don't get one, but don't take it out on the staff. You're well within your rights to politely ask them to leave you alone and close the door.

A wilful and steadfast ignoring of many posters personal experiences of the underhand, illegal and scary tactics some of these ordinary [people] doing an ordinary job for not very good money use when they forget that they are not bailiffs, they are not the police.

Or are you saying that a lot of posters are lying?

According to the TV Licensing Website:-

"When our enforcement officers visit a property they will:
Prove their identity by showing an identity card."

In my experience, you have to ask at least 3 or 4 times, before they even admit to being from TVL Licensing, let alone produce ID.

Oh, and as for:-

"Stop the visit if asked to leave."

There's plenty of Youtube videos, that demonstrate that is frequently not complied with.

Hi, thought I'd join up and add my view as someone with some knowledge and experience of TV Licensing.

The first point has already been mentioned several times: TV Licensing is not a Government Agency. They are a trademark of the BBC that is used by several private companies including Capita PLC. The TVL person that the OP encountered would have been a Capita employee or contractor.

That means they have no special rights, and the quotes from the TVL website confirm this. What the website doesn't say (to its eternal shame) is that when being interviewed by TVL on the doorstep, these rights apply: the right to decline to be interviewed, the right to silence and the right to obtain legal advice before continuing. Their interview process is specifically designed IMHO to undermine those rights, which is unacceptable.

In telling the TVL person to "piss off", the OP was simply declining an interview, albeit in her own choice of language. That is her prerogative, and indeed, legally speaking TVL staff are in line for much worse treatment, since if they persist after having been told to leave, a householder can legally use reasonable force to remove them. I would always advice people to call the Police instead, but the option is there.

It's worth saying that none of the routine harassment detailed in this thread is required or authorised by Legislation - it is entirely a combination of the BBC's attitudes and lack of respect for the spirit of various laws, and the commercial interests of a private company and its staff.

The very exercise of doorstepping people in this way is legally questionable, since Article 8 of the Human Rights Act provides a broad right to privacy against interference by public authorities (like the BBC).

It's certainly possible to permanently withdraw TVL's Implied Right of Access to your home. It has pros and cons, and in most cases shouldn't be necessary.

When I've asked the BBC about all this, they say that their doorstepping is "consensual". The only problem being that they don't seem to have told their staff that. (Perhaps the poster whose husband is a TVL person could tell us exactly what their staff are told about this?)

One last thing for now.

Women are more than twice as likely to be prosecuted for TV Licence evasion than men. (2.33 times, in fact).

Whether women really are committing the offence that much more than men, I've no idea, but it doesn't seem very likely.

Just: don't say anything to TVL people, don't bother filling out the online form, don't answer any questions, do formally decline to answer questions, don't give your name or confirm the name they have, do quote the right to silence and the right to counsel (legal advice), do send them away, and do call the Police if they do not leave immediately when instructed.

Above all (something I cannot emphasise too heavily): DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING

OP you're my hero, no TV at all? How does that work out? Have you never been a fan of TV?

To be fair I might not have sworn, but would have said look I don't need one, goodbye! Shutting the door in his face which might be considered more rude.

The BBC TV Licence goons are sales reps who need one victim an hour or 36 a week so are encourage to lie and set innocent people up, they also earn commission,

Now if you were knocking on doors what would put you off knocking, the nice women at number 10 or the guy at number 8 who tells you to OFF?

For the record I’ve not had any visits in over 13yrs because I told the last one who claimed to be doing surveys (later confirming he was TVL) to OFF

Cornucopia is 100% correct, the best way by far to deal with TVL, provided you are in a "Legal" situation of course, is to reduce or eliminate any communication with TVL or their Goons.
Not today thanks, or worse on the doorstep, never give them your Email or phone number. & you will be well on the way, to being free of their harassment.
You will still get the monthly "Threatograms" that recycle nicely, never reply to them - that tells TVL, your address is "Live".
Good luck ladies.

BabychamSocialist Sun 22-Jan-17 17:14:34
"Fine to not want the licence but nasty to tell the poor bloke to piss off. He's just doing his job."

Yes I remember some other socialists saying they were just doing their jobs, if you want the harassment to stop you have to tell them to FO