To live next door to a school and be declined a place.

[user1483804139]

So we recently moved to the area. We happen to live next door to the school we would like to move our DD to. They refused a place because of the ancient rule of 30 to a class. She's on a waiting list, but for how long, I don't know. We appealed but still lost. I'm just tired of having to be out the house even earlier to drive past a school to get her to the one in another town. There's another school which is about a 10 minute walk away which I'm thinking of applying for but so dissapointed that we can't get her in next door.

What exactly do you want the school next door to do though? Disadvantage the other pupils so that there's a space for a child who already has a school place? Chuck someone out to make room for your child?

In terms of the CofE school, I'm pretty sure that if there's a place they need to give it to you regardless of religion. If you're asking to go on the waiting list they may ask for proof of whether DC practice that religion in order to decide where on the waiting list they will be.

They refused a place because of the ancient rule of 30 to a class.

And why do you think this rule is in place?! How many would you prefer in a clazs? 45, maybe?

YABU. Unlucky. The school is full. Get on the waiting list.

Wow! to those who have one or multiple schools within walking distance!

The nearest primary to me is in a different county! They apply the rule 'as far as the crow flies' to gauge distance and for us that would mean bracing a bridleway up several hills to get there.

To drive would mean a half hour round trip.

We have chosen to send ours to a OFSTED outstanding primary in yet another county, this one is 10 miles away.

As I have 5dc there was a time when I had 5 in 3 different schools and I remember pulling into a layby just to gather my thoughts to try to remember which child was there and what afterschool clubs I needed to remember... sometimes my mind would go blank.

Now with the last of my dc in the final year of primary I know for a fact there is disgruntlement from certain parents that I even have dc there at all.

When we got accepted it was a quiet, rural but brilliant primary which never had issues with school places (8 years ago).

But since then its reputation has spread and there has been significant housing development in the local area.

There is only a tiny assembly/stage area so even though the school has taken in as many dc as it can, the school can no longer put on whole school productions.

It has meant villages where children who have traditionally got in no longer have places. So for these parents to see my dc coming in a car from over 10 miles away must be particularly galling.

Especially as there was a time when even dc from the same village as the school were on a waiting list.

I don't think you can blame the children or the parents or the school for the situation.

"Why not make more room to accommodate the ever expanding population."

So, what, build over the playgrounds and turn your quaint little one-form entry school into a 3-form-entry behemoth? You'll be just as enamoured with it then, won't you?

Venting on the AIBU is generally a bad idea, as there are usually dozens of people all waiting to vent right back!

I do sympathize, but schooling is a very different animal these days. 10 minutes travel isn't all that bad. I've heard a lot worse tbh.

Infant class size restrictions came in in 2001, so hardly ancient. The way to manage demand caused by new housing is to create new schools or enlarge existing ones, not to raise class sizes.

When we were moving I had to apply through the council that I was moving to. I did this the week after our offer was accepted. We didn't get the only school that we put down due to it being overcrowded. That is ks2 and the limit was 30 in a class.

Once I had my exchange of contracts signed (which wasn't until 2 days before we moved thanks to our solicitors) then they started trying to find a school place for DD.

There are only 2 primary schools close by to us and the other 1 and 3 others further away were all full too.
That's when they allocated a space in our chosen school.

The LA said that one of the schools would have had to have taken her in even if it did mean upping their limit.

I believe the waiting list ends in April and then it's on a first come first served basis. Therefore you should speak with the school and say please can you let me know as soon as a place becomes available so I can apply straight away.

People move all the time. Although my son didn't get a place at the same school as his older brother and been on waiting list since June. So In the end I researched a school that was available with good stats.

Yabu it's not an ancient rule it's a rule that means children get a decent standard of teaching if there were 40 in a class they wouldn't get enough attention. Our nearest school is 20 mins away 10 mins is nothing

Living next to the school doesn't give your child priority over a child who lives half a mile away and has grown up in the area and probably attended the feeder nursery school. Unless they should be separated from their friends who live nearer so you child can have a place?

YABU

Yabu, schools can't expand indefinitely. Yes your child is 1 child but they have a limit and the limit has been reached. It's unfair to those 30 children to disadvantage them by increasing the class size. And there's another school 10 minutes walk away! That's nothing!

Thanks for responses to my query. My situation was that we (my son and I) had a UK address, a flat in Southwark occupied by my husband, and would be joining him there from overseas when my job came to an end. Southwark wouldn't talk to me about schools until I was permanently settled back in the borough and my child actually needed a school place in the borough - but guess what? I don't make decisions about something as fundamental as my child's education like that! Just didn't find it a helpful way of going about things, so went with the private sector.

If she's in Year 1 the mandatory Infant Class Size rules apply OP. Unless you can prove the LA made an error in law , getting a place is going to be as hard as finding rocking horse shit.

DS waited over a year for his offer (Y2) and only got that because someone had left due to their parents moving to London for another job. My DD waited a further 6 months after that before we won an appeal and that was for a Y6 place when the ICS rules do not apply anymore (they don't apply after Y2 IIRC). All in all DD was on the waiting list (at the top of it) for 18 months altogether.

Keep DD on the waiting list. A space might come up. Unfortunately living near a school doesn't guarantee you a place, we have six primary schools surrounding us and all refused my DCs a space. Ten minutes is a doddle. Our daily school run if I don't pay for transport is a 30-40minute walk.

Faith schools are getting very strict on their admittance criteria. We have a RC that is literally a 5 minute walk away from our House. Despite DD being RC and her Dad being a practicing RC. She was still refused a place. We have a two schools directly behind us. Guess what? No places in either.

I'm grateful as the school they're both in is very good and DS has SNs so needs one that will attend to his needs. But I'm afraid this is the situation for most parents up and down the country at present.

When we moved I found the LEA spectacularly unhelpful. They would not tell me which schools had places. They would not consider any application until we had moved as we did not live in that authority. How on earth could I plan with that? Some schools were helpful, others weren't.

Cromwell yes you may call me Boobs

I just rang the LA and told them I was moving to the area, told them which schools I was looking at. My original 2 preferences were 'red' which basically meant already over capacity, both had 32 in a class of 30 (I presume that they allocated their 30 places then looked after children joined later)

There were only 2 schools with places in, one of which was brand new and only had 9 in, so it was basically guaranteed we'd get a place.

There's a different process for in year admissions, and out of area, I filled in the forms using current address, and wrote a covering letter with the intended new address on and I heard back within the week.

Everyone was really helpful. I never felt that anyone couldn't or wouldn't help.

Just waiting for house to complete and we're off.

I can understand your frustration, OP. Like the poster above who lives in Aus, I'm in the US and in our state, you're either in or out of catchment. The onus is on the school to resource up if the size of the population increases and funding is allocated accordingly. Luckily we are in a good state with good schools (I know not all are).

There has been chronic underfunding and lack of forethought when it comes to education for way too long. We used to live in Richmond and the year DC1 was born there was loads in the local paper about it being a record birth year. Did anyone respond and create school places in time, ready for five years down the line? No, of course not! And that's why half my old NCT group had to either move or go private as there just weren't the places. Whilst I think it's a little extreme to automatically expect a place if you move, to expect a place when you're a local shouldn't really be too much to ask. Shame on various successive governments for planning so very badly.

We weren't allowed any information when we moved within year too.

We were moving because we were having problems with their school. A big problem being that they were bussed in and the communication from the school was appalling so when they were being bullied we couldn't deal with it. I didn't drive at the time.
So we decided to move to a town with a school in town. They wouldn't give us any info until we moved though the school secretary unofficially said she thought they had space.
They didn't. So the children got bussed to a different school in a village outside the town and we're stuck living in a town we don't want to be living in but we're willing to for the sake of our children's education.

The system of not telling parents if there is space or where they are on the list is just nuts.

*were willing to (autocorrect)

What do you expect them to do, chuck another child out to accommodate you? Of course yabu and entitled.

On another note 30 max class size is only infants so you may get a place in year 3.

I understand your frustration at being so near and yet so far.

However I remember a friend's dc being at primary school just before the rule came in where 38 children had been admitted to a classroom where not more than 34 children could be seated at one time - even by jamming in tables on every available bit of floor space. I made for a very chaotic year.

It is annoying. I get that. But there has to be a system in place!

When you have to apply for juniors in October (I think!) time you can apply for the school next door to you.

I started school in the 1950s and was in a class of 48. 23 of us passed the 11 plus. It isn't just about numbers although I feel sorry for our teachers when I look back. They were amazing though, TAs hadn't been invented so it was one teacher and 48 kids.

My local school used to be seperate infants and juniors. To make space they turned both into primaries with 4 form entry.
The schools have built over some areas of playground but added extra space with playgrounds on the roof and mezzanine levels like balconies.

It is possible to expand within the space the issue is funding.

We had the same problem. Live on same street but at time of application lived 1 mile away.

If you have appeared have you gone to formal appeal panel? If not do, make it clear you will have to walk past a school to get to another school which is unreasonable. Did you let them know that you moved so close to wanted school (I am assuming that address you used while applying was different?). Why that school is the best school for child etc