To live next door to a school and be declined a place.

[user1483804139]

So we recently moved to the area. We happen to live next door to the school we would like to move our DD to. They refused a place because of the ancient rule of 30 to a class. She's on a waiting list, but for how long, I don't know. We appealed but still lost. I'm just tired of having to be out the house even earlier to drive past a school to get her to the one in another town. There's another school which is about a 10 minute walk away which I'm thinking of applying for but so dissapointed that we can't get her in next door.

I've applied for the other school. She hasn't got a place there yet. She's on the waiting list. Was just venting I guess at not getting in

Moving - very nice, but there are many areas where there are no places in any schools

Actually it's not that easy to apply for places in advance.

If you are moving to RENTED accommodation generally you are moving with very short notice.

I tried phoning the county council before we had somewhere to live and finding out where had places in schools, before we rented a house. The idea being that we would look for a rental property close to a school that had places. They were spectacularly unhelpful.

well once she hits KS2 - yr3 it will be easier to get a place.

Unless there are issues with the school that is a ten minute walk away then no problem really. But I wish you luck that a place comes up at the school next door.

When my children were primary age they did not get into the school in the nearest village (3 miles away) so instead had to go to the one in the nearest town (12 miles away) and later on attended a school 20 miles away. But I would much rather have to travel a little than the old days when classes were well in excess of 30 pupils.

But good luck.

Boobs (sorry, but that seems like the most appropriate abbreviation) how did you get the school/LA to engage with you before you were actually living in the area? Southwark LA wouldn't even speak to me about schools or send any information until I was actually living in the area, even though I explained I owned a flat in the borough, on which I was paying council tax and would, in a matter of months, be living there and nowhere else. So I opted for the private sector and surprise, surprise, the schools were more than willing to talk to me!

"The ancient rule" YABU!!! More than 30 children to a class would disadvantage them all

Movingonup- I didn't drive to another town before looking. She's been at the school she is at now since nursery when we lived in that area. The house we bought which we are in now was only do able because it was DHs Mother. So no, I didn't look at schools before moving. She is already at a school so it's not silly. Just unfortunate. MIL actually said when they moved in the head teacher was asking her if she has any kids to attend as they wanted pupils. So I didn't think there would be an issue.

I don't know what 'ancient' has to do with the class size rule I was one of 37 in the class at my 1970s primary school.

Class sizes can vary wildly from year to year - DS's school's reception year had 32 applications last year, the year before they had 12. Two years before they had 25. LAs forecast admissions several years in advance based on birth rates and housing development and if they see a need they will increase provision. They can't just make every class double the size in case somebody moves into the area in a high-numbers year.

Such a variation does also mean, though, that it's difficult to 'check there's a place' for your child when you're planning to move to a new area so YANBU to be disappointed and frustrated but it's nobody's fault. I'm sure your DC must be at or near the top of the waiting list.

I agree it is annoying if there are not enough places in the local area to match demand (although we walk 20 minutes to school, and it's fine. 10 minutes is nothing). We did an in-year admission too, and ticked a box on the form that said something like, please just give me the nearest school with places, but then we had to appeal for the oldest anyway because there were no spaces anywhere.

If it's just that school that is full, and others locally have places, then that's just how it goes.
A school in our town increased in size this year, so it now takes 90, I think.
It's meant that nearly every school in town was undersubscribed for Reception this year, but they are all still bursting at the seams further up the schools, and most KS2 classes are over 30.
It must be expensive to put the new infrastructure in place, so I suppose they aren't going to do it until there is a lot of demand, unfortunately.

Yeah I understand. Just annoying when you're so close! Lol. She is on the waiting list. The other school is church of England so they want an additional form filled as the reason I want to move is distance as opposed to religious reasons. (We aren't Christian)

Moving - very nice, but there are many areas where there are no places in any schools

I don't think I said the aren't and I do know a fair bit about areas with no school places having lived in one myself.

Not sure how that's relevant to my post really. Imo you check schools in the same way you check other things about a property are suitable like cost/bedrooms/outside space or whatever you prioritise when looking.

It's fairly easy to check which schools have places in year but contacting the admission authority which is usually the council.

I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not saying it's not disappointing when you don't get the school you want but that's life.

In Australia if you're intgecstchment your in the catchment. Once a class gets to 30 they have to increase teaching ratios. Sometimes they'll create a split grade class or they make an extra class. Our schools are bigger but there are no waitlists or commuting

• in the catchment

I live next door to a school, there are another 14 within walking distance, when we moved we didn't get a place for my youngest in any of them. In the end we were down for over 20 schools, and she was at home for 10 months. We eventually got a place at a school 5 miles away not on a bus route - during that period I couldn't work cos there is no such thing as full time child care for 6/7 year olds they are supposed to be at school, it was hell financially but we survived and the school she is at is fantastic, if anything the best primary any of my (3) kids have been to. Sometimes the obvious choice isn't the best one.

Sorry you didn't get into the school next door. Stay on the list, kids leave and places do open up.

Not 100% sure but I think Class sizes of 30 pupils is only for Key Stage 1. Also, this is not an ancient rule! This was introduced in 2001. I remember it well because it affected my DD who at the start of September 2001 should have been moving into Y2. It didn't happen - there were 33 in the class so 3 of them including my DD had to stay back in Y1 classroom for a year sitting and working alongside with the Y1's. Y2 Teacher would bring work into them and Y1 teacher had to help them as well teaching her own Y1 class. It wasn't ideal.

Year 3 onwards and KS2 and the class of 33 were back together again.

If the LA won't cooperate you can threaten suggest you make a Freedom of Information Request about which schools have places. That usually jollys them along a bit.

Cromwell - you don't apply through the receiving authority, you apply through the authority you live in.
It is a little known fact about the school system which can be very useful.
so, moving from town A to town B.
You apply to your current council in town A where you live now, using your current address. You put down the name and address of the school you want in town B. I think your head has to sign the form (may be wrong). The application is then processed through town A's LEA to town B's LEA.
If the school you are looking at has a place, eg 29 in a class with a PAN of 30, then there is no reason town B won't allocate that place to you. This can apply even if town B os 200 miles away from A and you couldn't possibly actual travel from town A to B. You then have a limited amount of time to take up that place (3 weeks? not sure) and the place is yours, even before you move.
Not sure if this is possible unless your child has a place in a LEA school in England. So can't do it from overseas for example.

I've just had this exact argument with my mum. Her village is in the process of having a massive new estate built. Unfortunalty the village school is already full, with quite a few children being driven to the village for their education. My mum thinks that anyone living in the village should be entitled to a place at the school, but can't grasp that if the school is full then it can't accommodate new children. She seems to think the school should have kept empty places just in case someone moved to the village and wanted to send their child there. I'm unsure how she thinks that would work logically. I couldn't get her to answer if she thought the town children should be kicked out to make way for the new village children.

Apparently the system from when I was a child was much better. My dad phoned the school, said we had just moved to the village and I was ready to start school and he was told to bring me along on Monday. That would have been the mid eighties.

I don't think that's right for in year admissions steppemum.

When I did it I contacted the LA for the new area (100 miles or so away), asked for a list of schools with places (to make it easier to narrow down house), filled out form which included a part for the old school, submitted form to new LA. Only stipulation was that you must have a UK address and usual admissions criteria applied for any waiting lists.

For normal admissions for reception/junior school etc you apply to the authority in which you live but not for in-year.

I am talking about in year admissions, and it is how we did it for our kids when we moved house.

You sound as if you were lucky. Most LEAs will tell you if a school has places, but they will not accept and application from you until you have an address within their borough/council. There are numerous threads on this in admission every year.

Also, when you apply for a school that is not in your borough, but you are not moveing (eg you live close to a county boundary) you always apply from the borough in which you live and not form the borough in which the school sits.

The LEA was very flexible to you to accept an application from you when you did not have an address in the borough. It is very unusual.

I help people with school admissions as part of my job.

My youngest wasn't doing well in her primary school and I was concerned that the school wasn't giving her the support she needed. We looked at moving her to another primary school which was outstanding ofsted and had a very good reputation locally. Although not in catchment it was only 10 mins walk from our house. They were happy to speak to me and tell me if they had places available. They offered to help me in the process - so maybe you should speak to the schools first to find out which ones have places, and then approach the LA with your preference.

Actually it's not that easy to apply for places in advance.

Must depend on where you live. I'm in South Wales and when I found out I was moving I went onto my local council website to apply for places for my 2 school age DC. On the form it asked 'are you living in the area' yes/no 'will you be moving to the area' yes/no. I had one school sorted before the move but the other I had to wait 5 weeks for a place (and had to appeal).

My LA tried the address in county (it's not London) but as we pointed out if there are places then the oversubscription criteria does not apply so an address from anywhere in U.K. is acceptable.

Oversubscribed schools are different because they can't put you on a waiting list.

I don't think I was lucky as much as well researched. I had also been through London school admissions before which are crazy so I made sure I did my homework!