To put them to bed at 8?

[38cody]

Two youngest are 9 and 6yrs. I put them to bed at 8pm, 9yr old reads until lights off 8.30 then sleeps pretty quickly.
6yr old has story read to him and a little cuddle, lights off approx 8.15. He is frequently still wide awake at 10, 10.30. Tonight still awake at 11pm!
He doesn't get up but he talks to himself, stands on his head, anything to avoid sleep. I can see he is shattered and he staggers in the morning from lack of sleep and sometimes falls asleep in afternoon assembly but he just won't/can't sleep.
I know he nod's off quicker if I lay with him but I really don't want to start that bad habit and also I like my evenings and if I do that I fall asleep and wake up stiff and cold at midnight!
Any strategies? Experience? help to get him to sleep?
My mother insist's he's overtired and should go to bed at 6.30 but I find that hard with 4 children and various evening chores.
What time do you think a 6yr old should go to bed. Also we live in a one level apartment so it would be very hard to keep him in bed if the others were up.
Any advice, esp if based on experience, appreciated.

8pm is fine for a 6yo's bedtime. What time do you stop tv/ iPad? What about an audiobook for him to listen to at bedtime?

No TV during week usually. Tried audiobooks but he seems to listen to them all night. Am going to try some lullabies if I can find some not in an american accent. Maybe some soft classical music - not really my thing - can anyone recommend music to sleep to? Classical or otherwise, might be less of a stimulant than a story.

Bloody hell its 01.37 and I'm still on MN! That's why he cant sleep - must take after me!

I would try an extended wind down routine. Add an hour onto whatever you currently do. So maybe he needs to have his story at 7pm and then be left by himself to read/talk to himself and then lights off at 8pm. Or do his story at 8pm, but then do lights off at 9pm.

My DC1 is like this, has always taken hours to get to sleep. We found making her bedtime later and giving her the extended wind down time to work best. She didn't suffer from lack of sleep/seem tired/fall asleep at school though, so it was less of a problem. She still takes at least an hour to get to sleep, I think it's just the way she is.

Things like a walk (fresh air and exercise) before bed can help. Relaxation tapes maybe. Avoiding getting them too stimulated before bed (a reason to do the bedtime story an hour or so before you actually expect him to get to sleep).

My 7 year old ds has this very problem, we have a very similar routine to you. He would get up with noticeable bags under his eyes etc etc. We found some rain sounds worked for him, I guess that way there is nothing for him to sing along to as such. He loves it and now when he is really having trouble getting to sleep he will simply ask for 'the rain.'

I really really like the rain suggestion and also perhaps starting earlier - and a slower pace. I want my evenings back!
Will take both of those on board - thanks

I have a lark daughter that's up before the sun and an owl daughter that can put all night ravers to shame.

My little owl is outright bribed into sleep. If she's asleep by her first check 30 minutes after I tuck her in she gets full privileges the next day, normal electronics/treats allowed. Then she loses privileges by increments for every time I have to check on her to make sure she's sleeping. By the 3rd one she's normally asleep at the fear of being stripped of all privileges. Often now though the first check reveals a sleeping girl.

BTW my little owl is 4. I was determined to get control of this before she was bigger as I could see a clear problem emerging.