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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think fathers and identity aren't that important

81 replies

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 20:53

Currently involved in a harrowing custody battle. Can't go in to details as ongoing court case but one thing that I'm constantly told, that seems to run through SW and judge veins, is that child absolutely must have a relationship with their father no matter how rubbish and anusive they are because it's important to their identity and MH.
What are your views? Did you grow up without a dad? Did it effect your sense of identity? Are their mums here raising their DC alone who are all going to have MH issues?
I can't help but think my DC will have MH issues if they are forced to see their abusive, crap father.

OP posts:

sandgrown · 14/01/2017 22:55

I have never known my dad and though I had a stepdad who was ok(not close) :I do feel I have missed out on the close father/daughter relationship s some of my friends had. I think it has affected my relationships with men. My friend said I always seem to be attracted to older men and "father figure" types!

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 22:56

bella can you elaborate?

OP posts:

PussInCoutts · 14/01/2017 23:04

It's really all about the children.

No matter how much of a bastard your ex has been to you, they have a different relationship with the DCs.

DCs are naturally loyal to both parents and should never have to choose between one or the other. Parental alienation is child abuse.

My ex was and is an emotionally abusive bastard to me (and occasionally physically too) but I accept that his role is important in my DCs life. Sometimes I hate his guts but at the end of the day I love my DCs more than I hate him.

steff13 · 14/01/2017 23:04

You had court at the beginning of the month, right? You were advised on your other thread to gather evidence of abuse, did you do that?

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 23:10

steff there is no evidence.

OP posts:

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 23:11

puss is was DC he abused not me.

OP posts:

Crumbs1 · 14/01/2017 23:17

I think research would suggest children are most likely to grow into happy, secure adults where they have been raised in a stable, loving family composed of a mother and father who love them and put their needs at the centre of family life. Of course, there are exceptions, of course some do OK regardless but overall yes, a father is important.

KimmySchmidtsFakeXmasSmile · 14/01/2017 23:20

I can only speak from personal experience. Having divorced parents and a father I only saw twice a month was hard. Hearing my mum unconsciously slag off my dad was hard. Having an abusive stepfather was harder.
I am sorry you want to protect your kids from abuse but can't. If you don't have the evidence you will have to wait until they are old enough to make up their own mind/can say they do not want to see their father. How old are they now?

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 23:21

But we are never going to have a 'stable, loving family' no matter how much SW try to make us fit their text book.

OP posts:

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 23:22

kimmy nearly 12 but the court says up to 18 they have to be forced to see them.

OP posts:

BravoPanda · 14/01/2017 23:34

AtSea that's not true. From around 11 they take the dc views into account. Also they would especially never enforce any contact after 15/16 as far as I know, and certainly not up to 18. At 16 he could be a father himself fgs.

RebelRogue · 14/01/2017 23:36

AtSea I think once they're 16 there's not a lot they can do to force them. End of the day,they could be living on their own and who would make them go? I know it doesn't help as it's years away. I think it's madness that they expect you to force a 12 yo i to contact. It's not like u can pick them up and strap them in a car. And even if you could,that would be a lot more damaging than not seeing their father.

As for identity and parents... I'm adopted. Abandoned in the hospital type shit. My adoptive mother was emotionally and sometimes physically abusive,so i drew the short straw twice on the mother front. No idea where i come from . That doesn't affect my identity. Finding out at 28 that my parents aren't my parents doesn't affect my identity either. I am who i am , and i'm pretty fucking awesome regardless of what my genetic background is.

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 23:36

Bravo DC has stated clearly for past year that he doesn't not want to see him. Now they are threatening me with care order.

OP posts:

Original poster

AtSea1979 · 14/01/2017 23:38

Rebel that's great. You sound like a strong person in your own right. That's why I don't get the identity thing. Surely everyone is an individual in their own right regardless of their influences growing up.

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RebelRogue · 14/01/2017 23:41

I do hope you get a new social worker that sees sense. Forcing a child into a relationship with someone they don't want is a lot more damaging for said child,and it's definitely not a good foundation for a relationship/bond. Do you and DC have any support? Does he see anyone to help him deal with all this?

steff13 · 14/01/2017 23:52

Sorry, I assumed it was physical abuse. What did the judge say? I'm glad you were able to get a lawyer.

GreenAndWinter · 14/01/2017 23:53

AtSea, your experience sounds horrendous. I've had bad experiences with social workers myself (when I split from abusive ex, and when he made malicious allegations a year later) but nothing to what you're going through. The reports they wrote were hugely incompetent and full of basic spelling errors. They got the name of my youngest child wrong in the second report, copied and pasted whole paragraphs of inaccurate medical information from the first report, and generally got a lot of facts wrong. I chose not to challenge any of this, as they did, both times, conclude that I was an adequate parent who was acting in the children's best interests by insisting on only supervised contact with their father.

I hope you get a better social worker soon!

I don't let my children see their father, because it would mess them up more than not seeing him. Still, there's no doubt that not seeing him messes them up. I listen to them and watch them playing imaginative games involving father figures, and my heart breaks for them. It's hard to know what to do for the best.

The expert court report by Sturge and Glaiser (2000) is well worth a read, and is available online.

My own experience of having an absent, abusive father is rather contradictory. I have horrible memories of him being dreadful to my mum when I was a child, yet I cried so much when he moved away and I couldn't see him any longer. My mum gave me details of sexual and physical and emotional abuse that any good psychiatrist or social worker would have told her to keep to herself - and yet I'm glad I know. I hated my dad when I was a teenager, I can remember tearing chunks of flesh out of my arms with my fingernails because I was half made of him, I was so confused about it, and I had post traumatic stress symptoms throughout my teens.

Despite all this, I have a good relationship with my dad now that I am in my forties. I haven't forgotten any of the past, and I'm not minimising it, but I do see that he has been incredibly supportive to me and my siblings as adults. My mum has died, so can't be hurt by the relationship, and although I do worry about my stepmum a bit, she assures me that he has never hit her. I value the relationship I have with my dad. I didn't want to see him as a teenager, but I'm glad there was a way back. (I should add that although he was very abusive towards my mum, there were no substance issues or personality disorders involved, and I honestly think that he has grown much more respectful towards women over the decades. He was horrified by the abusive men my sister and I married, and of huge help in enabling us to leave)

Sorry this is so rambly. At Sea, you just have to do the best you can for your children with the information you have right now

Bythebeach · 14/01/2017 23:56

I think this is fascinating because I have slowly come to the realisation that my eldest's father is a negative influence in his life. I set out with the presumption that it was best for him to have a relationship with his dad and I think in the early years it was positive for my son. Interestingly, my ex is not hideous or overtly abusive but he is damaging my son because I have brought my son up to love his dad yet his dad has clearly and increasingly shown my son that he is less important than his new family. Son really feels it - that his dad only wants to see him on his terms and at his convenience not when my son wants or needs it. It is dangerous because poor DS feels continually lesser and yet wants his dad's love and approval so much. We are trapped now because DS has an established relationship with his dad but he would have been much better off without it!

AnotherUsedName13 · 14/01/2017 23:57

Well, yes, fathers and identity are important.

Not being exposed to abuse is more important however.

OneWithTheForce · 15/01/2017 00:17

kimmy nearly 12 but the court says up to 18 they have to be forced to see them.

I don't see how they can enforce that, certainly not beyond 16 when DC can leave home, leave the country, get married, join the army etc.

sandgrown · 15/01/2017 00:33

At sea . I do know my identity but I still feel there is a missing piece of the jigsaw. I would love to know if I look like my dad and if I have other siblings. I would like to tell my children about their grandfather. I never had any living grandparents either so I feel I truly missed out .

CMamaof4 · 15/01/2017 09:01

Its appalling how toxic parents are put before children's mental health, My children's biological father stopped contact with my kids years ago after causing alot of distress for my son in particular who was the eldest (my daughter was very young at the time) he was very abusive and nasty, I also think when parents don't turn up for contact like they say they will can be very damaging to a child ( something my ex would do alot) and Its something that shouldn't be tolerated as its very damaging for children.
My children are happier without him in their lives and my son particularly has turned out so much better as a result of not seeing his biological Dad.
I have since had my exs new wife contact me and complain of what an awful father he is to her kids and how badly he treats her and is still an alcoholic so I can see he still hasn't changed and It has reassured me that they are so lucky to not have to be around someone like that!

worridmum · 15/01/2017 09:10

I am being unreasonable to think mothers and identify are not important for a child?

I know many people who were raised by single fathers (be it mother walking out or widowed) who have developed into brilliant people.

Also know people who were orphened and raised by grand parents to turn out great or even adpoted children...

All a child needs is loving and caring people around them there gender or relation does not matter in the slightest tbh in my epxerence anyway.

We should stop with over generlisation as it can be hurtful to good fathers for people to imply there input to child raisng is not important, while I know for a fact there are shit fathers out there we would not accept a generaliation that all mothers are bad mothers because their are bad mothers in the world (and yes there are plenty of them) and so there input is not important

NameChanger22 · 15/01/2017 09:14

In my experience a bad parent can destroy the self-esteem and mental health of a child. I've seen it in lots of people. It's far better to just have one good parent. I think the courts are very wrong about this.

We live in a very sexist society still where men's rights are more important that the rights of a child.

WhooooAmI24601 · 15/01/2017 09:18

I think every child needs love, security and consistency. It doesn't matter who those things come from, it just matters that they're not exposed to aggression, abuse or neglect.

The worrying thing is that children's mental health is less important in court cases than the adult's rights. The long-term damage caused by that disregard is potentially enormous. I work in a school and am often in a position where families break up and the children speak to me about their home lives. The ones who excel aren't always the ones who have the stereotypical 2.4 families. They're the ones who are secure and loved. Those are the biggest, most defining factors of any child I've met.

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