Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

Is it normal to not know much about the family's financial situation as a whole?

98 replies

scaredoffallout · 14/01/2017 16:58

So there's a mortgage and an overdraft - I am not sure how big they are but I have an idea. There's H's credit card bill (connected to his business) which he does sometimes tell me about, but not for a long time so I don't know how big that is. He is also paying off a capital gains tax bill and I am not sure how much he has left - though he has also told me about this in the past.

Other than that, I don't know. I think he may have some shares but I only suspect them rather than know for sure. He has a small annuity.

There could be loads more stuff, either negative or positive, that I don't know about.

I have my own account which H is not party to but it's small fry. He could be independent without me but the reverse is not true.

So my question is, is it in any way normal to only have an inkling about the finances but in reality not know - partly because you never see the paperwork, and partly because your H doesn't tell you?

I mainly pay for good and anything related to the dc - though have also paid for furnitire and holidays when I have been flusher.

H pays for the mortgage (only his name on that and on the deeds naturally) and all bills.

We have been together for 21 years and married for 15, and have dc. Just to set the scene.

OP posts:

Mum2jenny · 14/01/2017 20:55

Search Companies house beta and if his business is a limited company you will be able to look at his last published accounts, his business setup info and other stuff. It will not tell if he's in financial difficulties though.

If you are willing to pay for info, companycheck website give credit ratings.

Basicbrown · 14/01/2017 21:12

talkinpeace you may be DH's accountant. ....!

I think yanbu op, but when pp are self employed it's more complex. Small companies have ups and downs so it is sensible to be frugal. My DH is a bit cagey about how much is in his company but that is mainly because he is a bit ultra-careful and wants to avoid paying higher rate tax one year and earning 25k the second rather than having debts/ a gambling habit.

I think you should be on the house deeds though and family finances should be transparent. I spend what I like, neither of us run it past the other. But then TBF I don't have a Louis Vuitton handbag habit or I'm sure that would be raised by DH 😂

I also hold money in my name rather than jointly which I think is important personally. I also have own pension provision etc.

We have a joint spreadsheet which is largely maintained by DH but is fully transparent.

DrivingMeBonkers · 14/01/2017 21:38

MrsDustyBusty Sat 14-Jan-17 16:59:44
Since you're jointly liable for any bills in marriage, I really think you must be aware of your mutual financial situation.

No you arent. You are only liable for debt in your own or join names

Original poster

scaredoffallout · 14/01/2017 23:01

No you arent. You are only liable for debt in your own or join names

What about a credit card bill where you are the second card holder but not named on the account?

OP posts:

Original poster

scaredoffallout · 14/01/2017 23:03

Thanks for all your messages and all your different perspectives. Am going to copy and paste questions people have asked and answer them.

OP posts:

Dragongirl10 · 14/01/2017 23:10

This is not usual but more importantly very risky for you.

My husband and l have joint and seperate accounts but all open to see on online banking, l know exactly what our mortgage is and the rate. l know where his pension fund is at, and our joint investments are discussed monthly...we are completely transparent...l could not live any other way.

We discussed money freely before getting married, and found out our attitudes are similar.

Set up a home filing system for all expenses, and insist you get copies of all documents from loans to credit card statements, use the idea of the new filing system as leverage to approach your husband without him thinking you are about to divorce him or something!

Be very persistant you need to know what you financial situation is.

Applesauce29 · 14/01/2017 23:19

I have a vague idea about mortgage, husbands company etc, but mostly don't look at the detail because I'm not very interested. However, I could go look through the company accounts and his tax return and discuss with him if I wanted. He has no idea of my day-day spending (groceries, clothes, eating out etc), but knows salary and how much I save each month. It's your husbands unwillingness to share / discuss that rings red flags IMO.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 14/01/2017 23:27

You are NOT liable for the personal debts of your spouse.

Maybe not with creditors but courts can take them into consideration on divorce.

user1484317265 · 14/01/2017 23:28

What about a credit card bill where you are the second card holder but not named on the account?

Not liable. The person named on the account is solely liable.

crazywriter · 15/01/2017 00:08

That wouldn't be normal OP. and I'd speak to a lawyer before discussing divorce to get all your bases covered.

DH does out finances but once a week we sit down together to look over. I earn the money and he gets to spend it (light hearted way as we're very open with each other when it comes to finances now; he checksaid what I have coming in before spending anything out of the budget). It used to be the other way around when he worked and I looked after the children.

TalkinPeace · 15/01/2017 17:29

scaredof
DH and I each own our own companies.
He has absolutely no idea how to log into his company bank accounts, tax accounts, HMRC accounts
even less idea how to log into mine
his argument is "why have a dog and bark yourself" - or in our case, be married to an accountant.

The lack of overt transparency should not ever be a deal breaker
small businesses genuinely do not know their true position until after the year end which will be news to HMRC in 2018/19

The lack of trust is a different issue.

I explain DH's CT / CGT / SA liabilities to him and he nods and smiles
but he trusts me
if your DH is not happy to let you look at the numbers and nod and smile, you need to ask why .

Sunnyjac · 15/01/2017 22:03

Just because you're married doesn't entitle you to support on divorce. If you're not on the deeds for the house or the mortgage then you have no claim to the property. If you divorce he must support you whilst the children are at home. After that you're on your own. I'd be very worried in your situation. Good luck

kath6144 · 15/01/2017 22:37

Sunny that is incorrect. Whilst Op wouldn't necessarily get spousal maintenance, the house would be a joint asset of the marriage, regardless of whose name is on the deeds, and she would therefore be entitled to at least half of it, maybe more, as it is the childrens home. But not sure what would happen if he died and she was left out of will. Although I guess she could challenge it.

Op - your situation is definitely not normal, and I cant understand why you have let this happen. Why buy a house together without you both on the deeds? I would have run a mile at that point if it was at his insistence.

Why do you say 'naturally' only his name on mortgage and deeds? There is nothing 'natural' about it! You need to see a solicitor and find out your rights and, as others have said, find and copy his paperwork.

And those saying that small business owners are secretive - my DH has a Ltd company - whilst I dont know all ins and outs, I know what he pays into our joint account monthly, and what dividends he pays during year. I also know his accountants details. If I wanted to see company accounts, he would show me!

crazywriter · 16/01/2017 03:42

And those saying that small business owners are secretive - my DH has a Ltd company - whilst I dont know all ins and outs I know what he pays into our joint account monthly, and what dividends he pays during year

Similar in this house. DH knows what goes into the bank account because I tell him when I've transferred money and what I'm expecting each week from clients. He forgets but that's not the reason I tell him. I tell him because we are open about our finances. We live together and are a unit. I don't get the secrecy.

notangelinajolie · 16/01/2017 03:55

Well you have been together a long time so something must be working! However, I don't get why you don't know about the mortgage or the bills. Are you saying you have never discussed finances with him?

languagelearner · 16/01/2017 04:27

Whether or not it's "normal" - the norm - is less interesting. What's interesting is that it's not a good situation not to know about the family's financial situation. Especially the "He could be independent without me but the reverse is not true." - you might want to work on that one. Start by telling openly that you'd now changed your mind and would very much like to be more involved, more knowledgeable, and feel like you're taking a part of handling the finances.

ShanghaiDiva · 16/01/2017 04:38

To me it seems unusual. You are married to someone, share your life with them - how does this work if you don't both understand the family's financial situation?
I manage all the day to day finances (sahm) but Dh is fully aware of what we have and all financial decisions/ long term financial goals are joint.

1000hobnobs · 16/01/2017 05:27

You've posted about this before haven't you? I distinctly remember something about this secret shop and lots of covert sneaking around...

No. This is not normal. I am on top of all our finances. DH less so, but that's because he's less interested. I contribute at least half of the earnings so no way in hell would I just not know where they were and even if weren't contributing I wouldn't expect to be denied access.

Of course you don't need to know the minute details of his business but it's not normal to purchase and hide entire properties from your spouse or dispose of assets in secret. For all you know he is selling off investment properties to fund a flailing business. Would you know if your mortgage was in arrears?

This would be a deal breaker for me. If he refuses to engage with you then I don't really see what you can do? I'd say "I need the bank log in details as I want to check our bank balances and mortgage status". You could be two steps away from homelessness or bankruptcy for all you know.

mathanxiety · 16/01/2017 05:30

You are a victim of financial abuse.

(This is why she doesn't know about the mortgage or the bills - she is kept in the dark deliberately and he has managed to intimidate her by his aloofness and superior manner and no doubt many other means to such an extent that she doesn't dare ask at this point.)

It will have the effect you have described - unable to see that you are being ground down to the extent that you feel you do not really have the right to upset everyone else's life via divorce.

Another element of the fallout is stress, and of course the corrosive effect on the relationship when one party is effectively just occupying the position of a housekeeper in the family home.

In other words, there are psychological and emotional effects.

If I were you, I would shop around and find a Private Detective (properly licensed) to investigate your family finances, what properties are owned, what the debts are, and all about the business finances.

Do not say the D word to your H until you know where you stand.

Then do it. Nothing and nobody is worth enduring the misery of a marriage where you are erased as a human being.

2rebecca · 16/01/2017 05:44

I know all the details of our finances. I can't imagine being in a marriage where I didn't.

Mumgetsfitin15 · 16/01/2017 05:53

It's not normal at all but OP you have posted lots over the past month re. your marriage feeling guilty about initiating a divorce because of DC, was he wrong to call you a name in front of your family, the best lawyer in london to deal with difficult men etc etc why have you not seen a solicitor yet? Seek professional advice now a solicitor or someone like relate who offer all kinds of help re. marriages/relationships (not just couples counselling)?!? Good luck

kelj2 · 16/01/2017 09:40

To me it's odd. My husband and I have joint account and joint loans. Basically everything is joint and what's not joint we know about. E.g. My name is not on his credit card but I know how much we owe and what he uses it for. I have relatives who are married and she has hidden money and to be honest it's not let them in a good place and there's a lot of tension between families surrounding it. Having joint bank account and knowing about each other's financials is just how I was brought up so to me that's automatically what I did and seeing my relatives go through what they did I was like nope we are having joint accounts because I didn't want to end up like them. So far so good for us.

jojo2916 · 16/01/2017 09:44

I am in an opposite situation and think it would be nice to not have to think about finances too much although I would feel like the marriage is distant and I would need to be closer than that in a marriage, get your name on the deeds if you can but you should have many rights with being married anyway.

Flip

1 2 3 4