To wonder why coming out is a big deal

[Princessmanuka]

Now that Kendall Jenner is preparing to come out (as gay), AIBU to wonder why this is made out to be something huge?
Surely this is 2017 and who really cares?

It's becoming bit more acceptable to not automatically assume gender preference. E.g. I notice my teenagers are quick to not assume when someone is in a relationship that they are straight. E.g dd(16)s friend messaged her saying "I am so in love!" And dd replied "who's the lucky guy/girl?" Just naturally. Two of DS(19)s friends have come out recently. One first said he was bi as he said being gay seemed a bigger deal. But he is gay and openly gay now. Both DS and dd say they don't see it as a big deal and more of their peers are bi or gay. I certainly wasnat aware of anyone at my school who was openly gay when I was a teenager. they seem to not think of it as a big deal which is good. It also means my younger two are hearing naturally of same aex relationships as I will say their brother is going out to the cinema with c and his boyfriend... and I know someone who is married too and that was good to show them that people can be married to either gender.
I hope that mainstream kids tv get with the times and have some same sex couples or families soon. That would also help normalise.

I was in senior school in the mid 80's

Lost touch with a freind and met up with him again about 6 years ago

In later conversations i discussed an aspect of my child's behaviour with him

He said that he didnt come out til his late 20's because of the 'stigma' at the time...including aids

He has friends 10/20 years older who didnt come out for the same reasons until they had already been married and had children

He sajd it amazed him that children were coming out so early and even younger children were so accepting

On a slightly different note MIL is convinced that you can become straight or gay in your late 60's because she know women that were married and had children and ARE NOW gay

Sniv - I'd suggest the opposite. If someone explains they're using a word with one meaning as opposed to another, why assume they 're being disingenuous unless you're looking for reasons to be offended.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer - why is your MIL necessarily wrong? Maybe people can 'turn' gay. As long as they are treated equally and fairly and without prejudice it doesn't matter.

I don't see why you had to say "homosexuality is abnormal - I mean that in the statistical sense", when you could have simply said "homosexuality is much less common", though. It seems a weird choice. Incidentally, I'm not familiar with 'abnormal' being a term much used in any of the applications of statistics I work closely with.

I'm on the wrong page of this thread to quote now, but the poster who (belatedly) demonstrated the insight into why her friend's coming out was a big deal, and worthy of far more acknowledgement than just "ok", has really really made me smile. I am glad there are straight people who get this. So often I read people online cheerfully recollecting how they said 'so what?' or 'I don't care' or whatever, so very proud of how they took it in their stride, and though it's unintentional that does diminish what a big and scary thing coming out can be, and still very often is.

I think that people can realise late in life that they are gay

I think that people can be bisexual and find someone of the same sex to have a relationship with late in life

And due to the 'stigma' around being gay in the 60's, 70's and 80's i believe that people can know they are gay (like my friends mates) but not feel that they can do anything about it

I've read various articles by people that said they weren't gay but happened to fall in love with someone of the same sex for who they are not what Body they are in. I'm not making a point or anything I just think it's interesting.

I think its interesting buster

Although if i have fancied men and had sex with men all my life and then in my sixties found a woman i wanted a sexual relationship with...

I think (and i am probably wrong so abject apologies if i annoy or upset anyone) that might mean that i had always been bisexual but just hadnt found the right person

but then maybe its just a label anyway, maybe it would be better if it really didnt matter

My personal experience is that sexuality is more fluid than people like to admit. Well, either that, or a lot more people are bisexual than they like to admit and it just comes out when you meet someone you feel so strongly for you can't ignore it.

I've got a male friend who defined as straight until his mid twenties, then decided he was gay but had always been in denial, and then in his forties somewhat sheepishly admitted he was bisexual as he'd met a woman he wanted to be with (first in 20 years).

I have a female friend who ID'd as straight until she got divorced in her fifties, then met a woman and fell madly in love and now ID's as gay, but seemed very happy with her exH for many years.

I have at least one female friend who has changed her self definition four times at last count and now mostly just says she's someone who falls very very hard for whoever she is with and can't imagine wanting anyone different.

Randomly, have you seen stats for the number of people under 25? Less than 50%, in a recent study, identified purely as straight which I think is awesome. Even if most of those end up largely in heterosexual relationships, I think the world would be a better place if straight wasn't the norm, if we accepted that someone might be 90% straight and 10% not and it wasn't a big deal if one day they met that person that made them want to act on that 10%. It makes me really hopeful for the future.

brave

I agree, i think it can be fluid with gay at one end, straight at the other and the vast vast, majority of us inbetween the two

Again probably wrong so apologies if i have phrased it badly

I think the world would be a better place if straight wasn't the norm, if we accepted that someone might be 90% straight and 10% not and it wasn't a big deal if one day they met that person that made them want to act on that 10%. It makes me really hopeful for the future.

Why?

Why do you think this is better?

I'm a little puzzled by your ideas as much as "when there are equal amounts of heterosexuals, gays etc it will be the norm and no one will bat an eyelid, but we are not quite there yet."

The default or most common orientation is heterosexual. It has had to be for the survival of our species and as such is deeply ingrained in our DNA.

Sexuality is a continuum but that doesn't mean some people are perfectly gay or perfectly straight. I am. There are no doubt plenty of people somewhere along it though. I had a big arguement with a gay friend (bridesmaid) years ago when she insisted I couldn't be 100% straight and was kidding myself / hadn't met the right woman. To me, it was as insulting as telling a gay person they hadn't met the right [opposite sex] person.

I don't possibly see what benefit there could be for hoping for more gay or bi people. For it to be absolutely accepted, of course, but not for the numbers of whichever orientation to be evenly split.

Well, I'm not hoping for more gay/bi people for a start. I'm hoping for society to accept that there are MANY more of us than are commonly recognised.

And yes, I suspect that the vast majority of people are capable of opposite sex relationships. Some of those people will be 100% straight, just like some people are 100% gay, and that will never ever ever change. And that's fine. Whatever makes you happy. What I think is that the majority of people in this world may well be capable of more and I think the world would be a better place if all of us are able to love who we love, without it being a big deal, and without it being this massive identity shift. And of course, I'd hugely benefit from society accepting my relationship as 'normal' and just as valid as any other relationship choice.

I'm not exactly sure what you think would be lost if 'straight' wasn't the absolute default and we as a society were a lot more accepting about the notion of fluid and variable sexuality.

What I think is that the majority of people in this world may well be capable of more

Why do you think that? I assume that using "more" doesn't imply you see a benefit in being somewhere that isn't at the extreme of the continuum.

I'm not exactly sure what you think would be lost if 'straight' wasn't the absolute default and we as a society were a lot more accepting about the notion of fluid and variable sexuality.

I don't think anything would be lost (and I'm sorry if implied otherwise) although I do think the most common is logically the default and hetero relationships are the most common. Acknowledging a default and, by extension, a less common relationship, doesn't seem to me to be the same as accepting / understanding / celebrating / it being a non-issue as accepting anothers' "relationship choice".

I think the world would be a better place if all of us are able to love who we love, without it being a big deal, and without it being this massive identity shift. And of course, I'd hugely benefit from society accepting my relationship as ... as valid as any other relationship choice.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

See, Brave, I actually worry that in this liberal, accepting, sexually-fluid future, we're potentially looking at the loss of gay culture(s). Which, sure, have had to exist because homophobia, and which have grown up in fear and often self-loathing and being excluded from the mainstream; and which are often problematic in themselves (it is very horrible to come out into a hostile straight world, and then find the gay world also seeming to take against you). But there is something really hard-won and precious about gay culture and histories and communities, and while obviously complete acceptance in the wider world would be marvellous, I think losing the 'massive identity shift' would have huge costs too.

I think what Kendall Jenner is doing is different from your every day (non famous) person having the initial conversation with mum and dad. I am certainly not doubting Jenner's sexual orientation, but she is part of the Kardashian clan who court publicity for everything they do, because it gives them content for their show. It's in their own interest to announce it widely whereas most people just tell their friends and family. I think it's normal to assume your child is heterosexual unless they tell you otherwise, and that's why people feel they must come out.

Jenner is very popular with young people so if it inspires the odd gay person to come out more confidently it can't be a bad thing!

Meh - did she not date Harry Styles and is that not the same thing?

I don't possibly see what benefit there could be for hoping for more gay or bi people. For it to be absolutely accepted, of course, but not for the numbers of whichever orientation to be evenly split.

I agree. I don't hope for more gay people, I just hope people feel they can be themselves and their sexual orientation are accepted.

I went to a local am-dram panto show over Xmas. The plot involved a double romance at the end where Jack ended up with a Prince and Jill ended up with a Queen. The comments I heard from the group of kids behind me was shocking! It was sick/disgusting, etc, etc. If that's what young people have to listen to when they're figuring out their sexuality, then the more people who can normalise homosexuality in the public eye the better!

OP, if your source is even correct, why are you outting someone on a huge website before they themselves are ready to come out? That doesn't seem very kind. Why not have a generic thread based around a hypothetical someone if you're that interested. As it is, it looks like you want to be first with the gossip from your non-Internet source.

I really don't see it as a big deal. Gay people want to be treated as equals and accepted as normal, yet straight people don't out themselves, and nor should gay people. Just get on with your life - you really don't need to announce anything. I doñt think people are particularly interested or bothered. I work with gay people in a large office, and really don't look on them any differently than anyone else. There's so much crap going on in the world today, that this sort of thing just seems irrelevant and unnecessary.

Well, yeah, coming out is a big deal. Heterosexuals are the 'norm'. You don't have to announce to your family, friends etc that you are heterosexual. You just carry on as normal, no conversation necessary. You don't have to worry about prejudice, acceptance, judgement, losing people you love etc.

I dont know anyone who comes out anymore, they never go in the closet in the first place. At DCs school there is gay, lesbians, trans, even transvestite (key note speakers). In fact they teach genders and sexuality that I have never even heard of eg pan or x.

Seems like if your straight your the one in closet now lol.

Gay people want to be treated as equals and accepted as normal, yet straight people don't out themselves, and nor should gay people

Being LGBT is still hard for many people to accept and there is still a lot of prejudice around. There's also parents / friends etc who ask you about your relationships, when you're going to get a boyfriend, get married etc. There are people who still assume you're straight etc and sometimes I guess it's just easier to explain to someone that you're LGBT.

Do you live on the same planet?

Still a lot of homophobic twats out there.

supermummy what about people who live in other countries who aren't are tolerant, or people who have parents who won't accept them.

I can walk down the street and hold hands with my partner and kiss him and I've never been abused. My brother and my cousin do not share this same privilege when they choose to do the same with theirs. The world is not as forward thinking as you think.