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AIBU?

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Original poster

I would love someone to define to me what 'we look after our own first' means??

178 replies

SnipeBird · 07/01/2017 22:07

Whenever I have political or brexit driven discussions this is a constant arguement thrown back at me - and genuinely I'd love to know what it means? Does it mean those who pay taxes here (includes people here and abroad, but not those on benefits maybe?), does it mean if you live here (all expats are out then), does it mean if you're British? (What does that mean? I'm half English, half German?), does it mean if you have a passport (well my 2yr old ds is out?)
What does it actually mean, who are 'our own'?

OP posts:
Gingernaut · 10/01/2017 00:05

It means people like them.

NotStoppedAllDay · 10/01/2017 00:11

Op.... you wanted to create an argument didn't you?

Goady goady

caroldecker · 10/01/2017 00:23

Well we don't provide benefits to the world at large. There are borders to the UK and our benefits apply within those borders and not outside.
If you genuinely disagree with this statement, then you are arguing the UK should fund a world wide NHS, among other benefits.
Or are you arguing that anyone who happens to make it inside the border gets the benefit, but not those dying outside?

CakesRUs · 10/01/2017 00:25

My only problem in the this argument is that we send £12.2 billion in foreign aid, I don't have problem with that, but it does piss me off that two of the countries we send it to, Pakistan and China, have space programmes that costs them hundreds and hundreds of millions, whilst their poorest live in conditions we can barely imagine, absolutely living life at it's hardest. Don't get me wrong, I feel we have an obligation to help these desperate people, life is a lottery, we were lucky to be born where we are, it could be any one of us or our kids living in such poverty, however, the NHS is at breaking point, it is so underfunded, and it pisses me off that these Governments do not put THEIR own first instead of bloody space programmes.

TitaniasCloset · 10/01/2017 00:34

Its not racist at all, its common sense and just the same as charity begins at home. Expect to hear it said more often as our UK society becomes more unequal. As someone said, you would not take food out of your own child's mouth to feed the kid next door. especially if kid next door grandad was running a space program

caroldecker · 10/01/2017 01:05

cakes There are 1.2 billion people living on less than $1.25 a day. If we decided to double that for them, it would cost about £456 billion a year. This is over 50% of UK govt spending.
We do noting for the global poor, because we 'look after our own first'. If you want to campaign to stop all benefits and pensions in the UK to help the real poor have $1.25 a day more, then please do so.

caroldecker · 10/01/2017 01:07

as it is our foreign aid budget would add 2 cent a week to their income.

CakesRUs · 10/01/2017 02:10

CarolDecker - if you go back and read my post you'll see I said I'm pissed of that these Governments prioritise space programmes over THEIR own who are in desperate need. Who said anything about campaigning? You, not me.

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/01/2017 02:35

And the origin of 'charity begins at home' oft used by arseholes is not what they think it is. It really means that those values of philanthropy, caring and empathy start at home. They are nurtured there and therefore expand outwards. So, teach charity in your house and treat the people around you well so that you learn to treat others well.

What people actually mean that say that regularly is, 'charity ENDS at home'. And that's not really the same thing.

I would love someone to define to me what 'we look after our own first' means??
PausingFlatly · 10/01/2017 08:16

What people actually mean that say that regularly is, 'charity ENDS at home'.

This.

In fact, all of MrsTP's post.

Manumission · 10/01/2017 08:44

It's not hard to spot a racist, a kipper or a fascist and then to choose not to engage.

OTOH, if someone generally reasonable is trying to articulate something more nuanced or struggling with something more complex, it probably is a good idea to engage, regardless of phrasing.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 10/01/2017 09:24

Should point out that those says usually have two lines to them

So

CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME

The second part of that is

BUT SHOULD NOT END THERE

Is amazing how many people skip the last bit

My personal favourite is

Curiosity killed the cat...but satisfaction brought it back

CaoNiMa · 10/01/2017 10:20

Slightly off topic, and it doesn't particularly help the argument, but China really oughtn't be viewed as a Third World country with unimaginable poverty. Whether we agree with it or not, the Communist Party has constructed a pretty robust socialist state, with even the lowest rural incomes rising.

Oneiroi · 10/01/2017 15:44

As PP have said, it is a phrase I have only ever heard used by ignorant (not so closet) xenophobes and racists, to try to mask how disgusting their views are.

Also the claims that inequality in the UK is soaring are not backed up by the facts. Inequality rose sharply from the late '70s to the mid-'90s, and has since then been relatively stable/ falling marginally. The real problem we have is the cost of living versus wages.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonincomeinequality/1977tofinancialyearending2015#how-has-uk-income-inequality-changed-over-time

LaurieMarlow · 10/01/2017 15:50

You won't get a satisfactory answer to this OP. But it infuriates me too. Why on earth should someone be afforded special rights on account of being born in the UK? It's incredibly entitled.

DalekBred · 10/01/2017 16:05

about cuts to mental health services and the amount of foreign aid we pay out (the news didn't link them btw, it was just two different news items on within a few mins if each other and he said "we need to look after out own first, how can we send so much abroad when we have people going hungry, homeless and often dying in this country because the government say they need to cut services due to no money"

Its not racist at all, its common sense and just the same as charity begins at home. Expect to hear it said more often as our UK society becomes more unequal. As someone said, you would not take food out of your own child's mouth to feed the kid next door. especially if kid next door grandad was running a space program

This ^^ but yawn...... here we go with the goady accusations of xenophobia and rascism. again. 17 million xenophobes.....OP, Biscuit

PausingFlatly · 10/01/2017 16:20

Yes, I do expect to hear it said more and more often.

Because the people making the ideologically driven "austerity" cuts are very keen that we should blame foreign aid or immigrants or Others of some kind, rather than notice, say tax reductions for higher earners or the removal of more employment rights.

"Our own" can be pretty flexible, though.

Eg the last few years have seen govts establish narratives of "strivers" vs "skivers", with those who like to think of themselves as "strivers" being encouraged to believe that "people like them" would be looked after. Only to discover that they too were being hit by cuts to services for the elderly, or housing benefit, or women's refuges.

Katy07 · 10/01/2017 16:30

I've always taken it to mean exactly what it says - we look after our own, e.g. British living in this country, before we look after anyone else. So we make sure that our OAPs get a decent pension before we give money to countries with space programs, and we provide for our poor before we provide for the poor somewhere else. We pay our taxes to help ourselves and our families first, and our communities, not people living in another country. I don't want to pay tax so that someone in another country gets help when my parents have to do without here. What's racist about that?!

caroldecker · 10/01/2017 19:05

Lauriemarlow - Why on earth should someone be afforded special rights on account of being born in the UK
So stop the nhs and spend £100 bn more in foreign aid every year?

LouiseBrooks · 10/01/2017 23:45

cakes the money that goes to places like China is often part of what is called "aid for trade" where we get something in return. It is not as simple as us just giving money to countries with space programmes who can't be bothered to look after their poor. Do I think they should look after their poor? Yes of course I do but this system is also beneficial to the UK.

It is not the same as disaster relief or some other forms of aid where we are helping very poor countries.

38cody · 11/01/2017 01:04

I think it's aimed at adults and means people who were born and raised here in the UK.

Twogoats · 11/01/2017 01:06

Is it only Brits who are 'twats' for saying it?

What if a Japanese person said it?

Or, a Polish lady?

Are they twats too?

LaurieMarlow · 11/01/2017 09:33

Carol, you were immensely fortunate enough to be born into a country that has an nhs. You did nothing to deserve that, simply an accident of birth.

Someone else had the misfortune to be born in a much poorer country, with no such amenities. Their potential life outcomes are much worse than yours.

What philosophical justification can you give me that makes your good fortune/their misfortune right and just? Why on earth do you have a god given right to the nhs while they don't?

38cody · 11/01/2017 10:54

Because the NHS is funded by the people who toil away in this country to fund it through our taxes. I buy food weekly to feed my family - it would be nice to feed the whole world but I can't afford to so I just feed my own family. We contribute through our taxes to the UK health system - it would be nice to treat the whole world but we can't afford it - so we treat our own people - UK residents. Thats why.

albertcampionscat · 11/01/2017 11:45

The NHS is also full of doctors, porters, cleaners, nurses and admin staff who grew up abroad. Filipino, French and Finnish taxpayers paid for their births and their education and we're profiting from that. Not to mention all the Brit pensioners living off Spanish taxpayers right now.