To ask advice as my parents have been waiting for three hours for an ambulance

[haveyourselfamerry]

They are 500 miles away in Bournemouth. Dad is 80 and frail with poor visual processing and probable autism.
A little over three hours ago dad fell in the sitting room. Mum got him into a propped up position. It hurts behind his left hip.
The history is that he fell last February and broke his hip. He was stuck in hospital waiting for a fictitious rehab place for 10 weeks, as a result of which his gait has permanently altered.
They are hoping this is not another break as it feels less bad than last time.
Obviously though they are getting increasingly uncomfortable and distressed.
He will fall asleep soon. Mum is wondering if she can get him lying down. She is too fail to stop him dropping off/sliding over.
Thanks in advance :(
Old age s not for sissies.

want private A and E, most close at 10pm, and only deal with tgex

(Phone issues) really minor issues. If you turn up with a full blown heart attack or stroke they'll probably ring an NHS ambulance for you and send you to the nearest teaching hospital. And probably care out of hours care only really exists in London.

Private out of hours care

By the way, I think the NHS is not broken at all but the dark forces of privatisation would like us to think it is. What we are seeing here is underfunding in relation to population growth and string,

I have been treated very badly indeed in the private sector in the past, so it's no panacea.

Ageing

Thinking of you all this morning and hope he is as ok as he can be. Does he have Attendence Allowance? I think Rehabilitation goes under the term Reablement here and I think the mobile Physio your Dad has might come under that team. They should Aldo have had an OT visit to ensure they have everything he needs e.g. Grab rails.

It might be an idea if they don't already to get SS involved, tracking down the hospital SW would be a good start and they would then get transferred to the adult team once home. Your Mum is entitled to a carer's assessment as his career to check her own needs are met. Not that I think it will be particularly worth doing but you never know.

I think you will have to be very firm about making sure an adequate care package is in place. They tried to duscharge my friend's relative from Bournemouth who has severe dementia and whose partner had started passing out due to the stress. They blatantly needed a CH placement so their daughter refused and realised they were eligible for CHC so awaiting for that and a CH placement a month later.

Unfortunately resources are hugely overstretched here as we have a larger elderly population as people retire here but no allowances made in funding terms for that. Something one of the surgeries locally has started is having a paramedic attached to the surgery who will go out. Ours had what they called a tracker nurse whose job it was to keep those vulnerable to hospital admission from being admitted, she was amazing with my Mum.

We used a private Physio for my Mum when she was bedbound ad had to be hoisted. She went from that to being able to make a long haul flight to Asia to see her new Grandson. It was expensive but fortunately she was able to afford it.

I'd also recommend of keeping a diary of things that happen ,it can be very useful to look back on it as at the time you're knackered dealing with the emergency at hand.

Of course, it would be immoral for your mum to mention your dad's chest pains when she calls back, he'd be pushing in in front of all the poor drunks.

No. He wouldn't be pushing in front of all the poor drunks. He'd be pushing in front of red alert calls for cardiac arrests and breathing difficulties!!

Trust me I say this as someone who has very little sympathy for drunks after recent events, (i watched a sweet bedridden old lady get sent home at 9pm at night because someone who'd had too much to drink needed the bed) but advising the OP to lie is a really bloody stupid thing to say. Not just that you could risk them being less likely to come out quicker next time if he was to have another fall.

OP. I know it's awful. My Mum had to wait three hours last time she fell but she's a stubborn mare who won't accept homehelp when it's clearly needed . I'm afraid it's just how they prioritise their calls OP when they're on their own arses financially. Where I live they've literally had to cut back ambulances, leaving them with less of a fleet, to make up for the shortfall in the budget they've lost. Not even a whisper of it on the news though. My advice is if happens again to ring the ambulance back periodically whilst waiting just to check they haven't forgotten about him. I hope their wait in hospital isn't too long and he's better soon.

OP. Do they have an on call button in their house? My mum has one for when she falls.

I had a similar last June.

Mum had shingles and overdosed on pain killers. She was in a bed way. I phoned 111 who did an assessment and said an ambulance was on its way... Two hours later no ambulance. so in desperation I took her to A&E by car. I was worried about the journey..

When we arrived there were three ambulances in the car park and all the crews were eating ice cream having a lovely day in the sun...

itsnoteasy don't you think that ambulance crew are entitled to breaks?

^I had a similar last June.

Mum had shingles and overdosed on pain killers. She was in a bed way. I phoned 111 who did an assessment and said an ambulance was on its way... Two hours later no ambulance. so in desperation I took her to A&E by car. I was worried about the journey..

When we arrived there were three ambulances in the car park and all the crews were eating ice cream having a lovely day in the sun...^

I once too one of the DCs to the GPs where there's a lovely bakers not far along. I treated the DCs to a cake afterwards for being good. It was 2pm and in front of me was a Paramedic. He was telling the baker he hadnt stopped all morning and his ham salad cob was actually his breakfast. Just as he was paying he had a red alert call come through on his radio where he had to promptly dump his breakfast and change and run out back to his crewmate and off on this next call.

I'm guessing the paramedics sunning themselves had a similar call and didn't get to finish their ice creams either...

oh crap i live in bournemouth and am in trained in helping elderly people up and first aid. if i had seen this i would happily have helped :(

Of course ambulance crews are entitled to breaks but breaks can be staggered. When DD was in A&E last year a 1:1 agency mh nurse who wasn't required at all because an assessment could be done on premises by the mh nurse on premises from 8am to 3am (but the paed didn't know that was the case for over 16s so booked an acute paed bed for a Camhs assessment after 9 the following morning). So a 1:1 nurse was booked before that was established. She then sat on her backside behind the nursing station chatting to security, etc for two hours whilst the matter was resolved. Total waste and if she had to stay then she should have been given something constructive to do as she was being paid, even if it was making tea for patients and relatives.

Of course ambulance crews are entitled to breaks but breaks can be staggered. In a perfect world, yes. But the reality is many paramedics and other NHS have to work through their allocated breaks. My mum was one of those who spent hours in a corridor recently with the paramedics who brought her in by ambulance. Of course, not the best use of their time, but they were working.

I think the issue of use of agency staff is a whole other matter.

AwaywiththePixies sorry you had a bad experience, however I do think if a person can be taken to A&E by car rather than by ambulance, then they should do so.

My mum had a fall where it was suspected she had broken something and we were explicitly told not to move her. When the ambulance came 6 hours later, she was cold and shivering even with an electric blanket wrapped around her and because her leg was so painful, they had to administer morphine before they could move her. After an XRay, she was told she had fractured her femur and her leg is now plastered up.

What I'm trying to say in the nicest possible way is that if an ill person can be taken by car/taxi, then consider that first, because another person who cannot be transported by car/taxi is then left waiting even longer.

Glad your dad has been seen, hope he is ok today and your mum is bearing up well.

Do keep us updated although I imagine you may be making that very long drive.

But it's not the paramedics fault though.

If I lived in London I'd probably be waiting a good while anyway despite being a red alert.

Most times I've been taken away in an ambulance I've walked up the garden path to the ambulance holding on to a paramedic whilst the other paramedic holds the tank attached to my oxygen mask I needed. Only once did I relent and let them take me out in their chair. I can't go by hospital or taxi as they don't carry oxygen tanks and nebulisers'. Only ambulances do and if I'd waited for a taxi to A & E I'd be even more desperately ill by the time I got there. I cant be transported by taxi in those instances as I need the oxygen and the community nurses who often come out to me also dont carry them so have to ring an ambulance anyway. I'm one of several people who probably has this type of situation (asthmatic and no before you ask I've already asked for a home nebuliser and been told I have to wait until I've seen the consultant - not even had a date yet). My Dad rang 999 when he thought he was having an asthma attack, turned out he was having a heart attack and he was blue lighted straight to hospital.

These are the sorts of calls paramedics have all the time. Just when they've finished dealing with the first 10/20 cardiac / respiratory call and finally gets down to 'Sally down the road who's fallen and been waiting an hour' , they'll get another red alert call for another cardiac or respiratory call and they have to downgrade Sally again. It's not ideal at all but the paramedics are trying their best in a very shit situation.

You won't get a neb unless you buy your own, they really, really don't like us having them at home. In the end I bought my own, and the consultant agreed to prescribe the nebules provided I only use it whilst waiting g for an ambulance.

Home nebulisers can kill, they make you complacent about staying at home when you really should be in hospital.

As a result of the time I have to wait I'm going to push hard for home O2, 40+ minutes when you are so ill you fall unconscious is far, far too close to respiratory arrest for comfort.

I know TheNiffler that's what I mean I still have to see the consultant to get the nebules even if I was to buy my own.

So for now I have no choice but to ring an ambulance when its out of hours. I wont be the only one to do this and even though I'd technically be well enough to get a taxi the wait could really harm me. There's thousands of us like this up and down the country who's rather not have to do the whole hospital via 999 job.

My Mum is very stubborn and if she had accepted the home help prior to her hospital discharge the fall she then had and had to ring the paramedics for could have been prevented. They'll be people like my mum in front of people like OPs FIL too. I've read on Mumsnet a few times about there having local falls services and I think its a brilliant idea. I know we have nothing like that where we are at the moment but I'm sure it'd help free up the ambulance service and not have so many poor souls waiting on the floor for hours.

Really. When DS was 5/6 months old (admittedly 21 years) ago they gave us a nebuliser and the paeds in A&E specifically gave us nebules and instructed them to be prescribed so he could be managed at home. We were specifically told we were intelligent parents who could be trusted to bring him in if required. Admittedly our GP was a bit hmm. We had to buy a modern nebuliser that actually worked though.

After all that we had him referred privately to The Royal Brompton who arranged a 1:1 session with an asthma nurse. She explained the advice we'd been given about one puff of (the brown one) prevent or into a spacer and counting to 10 was in fact wrong. One had to look and make sure the baby was taking breaths and not holding breaths during that count. Also that the first squirt and a big breath got in a certain percentage of the meds so you could break inbetween squirting again to make sure the full dose was inhaled. Can't remember the percentage now. Also recommended something called a turbo haler - smaller and more manageable - much easier to get the baby in a left arm lock and get the mask over his little face with the right arm. It cost £25 and wasn't available on the NHS then. After that advice ds never needed the neb ever again.

It wasn't rocket science and just think how many admissions, consultations could have been prevented and costs too.

The NHS just doesn't work smart.

OhTheRoses I have the turbo haler (symbicort) it doesn't always work though hence the admissions and waiting for a consultant.

Sorry OP. I've majorly derailed your thread with the whole 'push in front of the poor drunks' comment but I couldn't let that one go.

Hope your FIL is feeling better now

If your parents are over 80 I'm pretty sure you can get a free Lifeline (personal alarm or whatever, I don't actually know the company they use there but my grandma lives in Dorset and got one installed and she's pretty fit and able).

If it's used they can either phone you or an ambulance and they tend to know the right questions to ask - might be helpful for in the future. They'll talk to them as well and suggest blankets etc so your mum might feel a bit more supported while she's waiting.

It's all changed Roses, 18 years ago we were given a nebuliser for DD2, they won't do that anymore, unless you need nebs as part of your daily routine.

I don't hold out much hope for getting O2, but frankly if I don't get it I don't rate my chances of seeing in the next New Year, I've already spent a 5th of last year in hospital, and every single admission is the same, 40+ minutes for an ambulance and me barely making it.

Polka my mum is in her 50s. She pays minimal for hers. I think the only requirement was she needed a landline to connect it up so there's technically that charge. The thing is though she's a PITA for using it. She's had major ops on her chest and neck years ago and the scarring means she cant wear a pendant necklace. They even provided her with a special bracelet which she's supposed to wear all the time in the flat for if she falls. She just presses the button on it and it connects to the services. The last time she fell her pendant bracelet was on her coffee table yards away from where she was. She had her mobile in her hands though. She rang a friend who rang 999 even though my BIL and Niece were on their way anyway.

It's worth looking into.

AwaywiththePixies apologies, I didn't mean to have a go at you. Obviously your post to which I was referring only mentions mum having to wait 3 hours after a fall, nothing about your own medical problems and the reasons why you cannot go to hospital by car/taxi. I couldn't possibly have known that. However, on reading the post again, I now see you were quoting what itsnoteasybeingdifferent said, which was what I was referring to......!

However, same point s