To think the nurses shouldn't have spoken in a different language in front of me?

[ColouringTheBrain]

If I start by saying I think our NHS staff do a great job I'm not looking to be flamed, I genuinely want to know if I'm BU.

I had to go to the hospital today, the nurse that initially dealt with me was kind and gentle, also in the room was a colleague of hers ( another nurse). The nurse took my bloods, then went to get another machine, it was then that the two nurses started talking to each other in a different language ( I'm not trying to be vague, I just haven't got a clue what language it was). It made me feel really uncomfortable as it was directly in front of me, whether they were talking about me, or what's on TV, or other members of staff I feel is irrelevant, I felt like they shouldn't be doing it in front of a patient. Obviously I didn't say anything, I wasn't feeling the best anyway, but I also felt slightly intimidated I suppose.

AIBU, or should I just accept it as part of the care?

I had a tutor who used to do this as well. He shared a language with my tutorial partner and they used to spend the first couple of minutes in chit chat in their shared language before reverting to English (they were also both native English speakers). It was rude then and it's rude now.

I'm not sure that is the consensus Cara - it looks a bit that way until reading poster names and noticing that for some reason a vast number of the posts are by you. Although you are not the OP you seem very heavily invested in the thread for some reason!

You say that you'd expect to hear medical jargon in a hospital and imply that that means it is acceptable to use it in front of patients even when they won't understand, and of course you are right.

Given 11% of NHS staff and 26% of NHS doctors are from overseas it would also be logical to expect to hear other languages in a hospital!

It is terribly unprofessional. As a patient you should feel cared for and respected, not talked over as though you are a piece of meat. I would definitely complain if I was being cared for by two nurses that chatted away in another language over me and basically ignored me. It is rude and uncaring and well beneath what I expect from NHS professionals. If they chatted away about gossip or whatever in English it would be equally bad. They should focus on the patient and on their role as carers.

Yanbu.

If a nurse is at the nursing station it wouldn't bother me but I think it would make patients worry more if they couldn't understand the language spoken while a nurse was actually giving them care.

DotForShort

"I really don't understand what could possibly be intimidating about being in the presence of people speaking another language, nor do I understand why that would make anyone uncomfortable. If the OP was worried they might be discussing her, then by all means she could have asked whether something was wrong, etc. And I would hope the nurses would have reassured her"

To try and give some clarity to your statement, in any ordinary setting being in the presence of people speaking another language is of no consequence to me. Today however, in hospital I felt vulnerable ( and ill!). I wasn't giving it a thought at the time about what they were discussing, more that I felt uncomfortable with my own vulnerability I suppose, being the only patient in the room and they were talking together in another language. I can't explain it any other way.

Maybe I am. But I'm not following the logic. If speaking in a language that an English hospital patient doesn't understand in front of them, thereby making them feel uncomfortable, is unprofessional and rude because the speakers could just use English, then why would it be less rude if the language was (for instance) Welsh? I'm pretty sure there aren't any many NHS Welsh nurses who can't get by in English.

I'm not British, speak 3 languages fluently, work in a multi-national company, and think this is wholly unacceptable behaviour on the part of the nurses.

This is not patient-centred care. Two nurses speaking an unfamiliar language in front of a patient does nothing other than exclude the patient. It increases the patient's anxiety. It is disrespectful of the patient. It neglects the needs of the patient to be fully involved in their care. It is not in line with the NHS constitution, which speaks of not excluding people, fully involving patients, valuing every person, and about staff being honest and open. This is not what the OP has experienced.

This is not about the OP being nosey. It is about the vulnerability of a patient being exacerbated through inconsiderate behaviour that excludes others, and in this case the vulnerable patient is the one being excluded. This behaviour isn't tolerated in a lot of companies. There is a working language, and people are expected to speak in that language. The only exception I could see within a hospital is if it was at the request of the patient a different language was spoken, thereby leading to the patient have a better interaction with the healthcare provider.

The suggestions on here that it is in some way racist to feel anxious or intimidated because your care providers are consciously speaking a language you do not understand in front of you, is a worrying attitude that seems to suggest it is acceptable to remove the rights of a patient to be fully involved in their own care for fear of being perceived as anti-foreigners.

Again, it is not just care that is to be provided, it is patent-centred care. The patient is the focus. The patient is the priority.

English is my second language.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. I also would not want people to speak in a different language in front of me. I think it's rude.

YANBU. It avoids anyone thinking something unpleasant is being said about you or indeed anyone else. I assume you were in an English hospital, as had you been in Wales and Welsh was spoken I am sure you'd have realised.

I think it's rude and unprofessional to have a private conversation in front of a patient, regardless of the language spoken.

If I was in hospital in Wales and heard Welsh spoken, the nurses might assume I could speak Welsh as the majority in a Welsh-speaking area can get by in Welsh. I'd actually appreciate it if they spoke in English if they knew I couldn't speak Welsh but it would be understandable if they didn't if it was their native language and they are working in Wales. Speaking in, let's say, Pashtun, in a hospital in, let's say, Hereford, is quite a different proposition.

The nurses wanted to speak to each other and paid no heed to the patient with them. No doubt they were just chatting about their holidays but it's not a professional demeanour in front of patients. At the nursing station, absolutely fine. In a room with the patient or at the patient's bedside - no.

squiggleirl you've articulated it far better than I could, and I agree with everything you've said.

I think the consensus here is that the OP was not being at all unreasonable to feel as she did.

Not really, since about half of the posts agreeing with her are from you

Welsh would depend on the context, wouldn't it.

Fine in some areas of the UK but not necessarily in others.

YANBU, if the people in the room were nurses then they have gone against many of the fundementals of 'The Code' which you are supposed to adhere to , to be seen as fit to practice .

Of course there is the flip side where if it is perfectly OK for people to discuss stuff , medical or otherwise infront of you in a different language , then the NHS budget could save a few quid on all the interpreters they pay for to ensure people do understand .

I think it is rude. Talking another language wouldn't have been allowed in any of the customer facing roles that I've worked in. No reason why the NHS should be different.

And I speak another language. DH and I use BSL but I wouldn't do it in front of someone who couldn't understand. I would use speech as well so that they weren't excluded.

Yes. Welsh in Welsh-speaking areas of Wales. Not in London.

It's generally not hard for people to work out how not to exclude patients. Use the default language of the area - since you work in it you should be able to speak it, at least to some degree.

You say that you'd expect to hear medical jargon in a hospital and imply that that means it is acceptable to use it in front of patients even when they won't understand, and of course you are right.

If though I hear medical jargon I don't understand that refers to me or my family I would expect the medical staff that used it to be able to explain it in layman terms to me (in the official language of the hospital) if I asked.

Given 11% of NHS staff and 26% of NHS doctors are from overseas it would also be logical to expect to hear other languages in a hospital!

I would expect 100% of the medical staff in an NHS hospital to be able to speak the English fluently so there would be no need for the use of any other language.

YANBU and I am finding the snarly implications that you are racist, nosy, a little Englander really weird.

I work in a clinical setting. It would not be appropriate where I work. In fact if we have a family who speak no English we wouldn't chat away in English in front of them without trying very hard to include them in the conversation!
If that were not possible we would have the conversation elsewhere.

This is not about 'talking funny' ffs. It is about professional behaviour in a clinical setting.

It doesn't matter what the language is, you do not use it to exclude the patient/family.

We all have a responsibility to treat our patients/service users with compassion. We should be introducing ourselves, using their preferred names and talking to them in a way they can understand. Three people in one room, one who doesn't understand the other two, them speaking to each other...that is not ok.

If people can just stop trying to out-cool each other and look at the actual issue.

Jolly good for all you sophisticated polymaths but how many languages you know is really not the point here.

Given 11% of NHS staff and 26% of NHS doctors are from overseas it would also be logical to expect to hear other languages in a hospital!

Err NO.
I would expect all these people to have a perfect handle of English (not the least to be able to communicate with patients and with consultants etc..)
And because of their perfect handle of English, I would expect them to speak English.
Why would they have any need to speak another language when they are fluent in English?

Can I just say that I have absolutely no issue with colleagues talking to their families/friends on their break in their mother tongue , doesn't bother me in the slightest , have learnt a few choice other language swear words that way

"The working language of the department is English, so everyone speaks English in formal meetings, etc. Otherwise, my colleagues and I speak in any language we like."

So if you and one other colleague were illustrating (say) a new CPD service availability to a solitary customer/external university partner, do you think it would acceptable if you and your colleague conducted a sub-section of the discussion (or even slotted in something totally unrelated, during the discussion) in a language that the third party did not understand, DotForShort?

Or would that be rude?

Actually I think most of the sophisticated polymaths are saying it's respectful to speak in English!

I'm not exactly a sophisticated polymath but I do speak another language and have lived abroad and worked in multilingual institutions. Nowhere but the UK have I found this eagerness to out-cool each other trumping basic respect patients/clients.