To think the nurses shouldn't have spoken in a different language in front of me?

[ColouringTheBrain]

If I start by saying I think our NHS staff do a great job I'm not looking to be flamed, I genuinely want to know if I'm BU.

I had to go to the hospital today, the nurse that initially dealt with me was kind and gentle, also in the room was a colleague of hers ( another nurse). The nurse took my bloods, then went to get another machine, it was then that the two nurses started talking to each other in a different language ( I'm not trying to be vague, I just haven't got a clue what language it was). It made me feel really uncomfortable as it was directly in front of me, whether they were talking about me, or what's on TV, or other members of staff I feel is irrelevant, I felt like they shouldn't be doing it in front of a patient. Obviously I didn't say anything, I wasn't feeling the best anyway, but I also felt slightly intimidated I suppose.

AIBU, or should I just accept it as part of the care?

no Troll, that is not the point.
A 'wee chat' in their own language in front of a patient who doesnt speak it is rude and excluding, no matter how you dress it up.

"drives me nuts almost as much as when non English speakers talk to their kids at school in their native language."

And people said I was wrong with the Britain First thing.....

There are 453 messages on this thread scottishdiem. That post is not representative of the views of the people who say that what these nurses did was wrong. And presumably you know that

Thetrollinator of course that would be rude though not quite as rude as doing it in another language.
Some people seem to be unable to distinguish between a professional/work enviroment and a social/private one.
Nursing staff are paid to care for the patient , not have private chats in front of patients whether in their own language or not. If you want to chat about something that doesn't involve the patient then do it when you have finished caring for that patient.Some general chat is fine of course, as long as the patient is involved and interested in it.

I think they can be kind and considerate of her needs and have a wee chat in their own first language. It would be different if they were unfriendly or ignoring her. Would it really be different if they chatted to each other in English

Yes, IMO. I have (mild, but still there) health anxiety. In the street, or school or at the supermarket, I wouldn't care what language people use to chat.

In a medical setting, I would worry that they were talking about me, or my tests/issue or that something was wrong that they didn't want to freak me out with.

Completely inappropriate for health staff to do this in front of a patient IMO.

"And presumably you know that" - As I have said, if the OP said they were rude for not doing the entire "only speak in earshot of the patient if its about the patient and her care" then I'd have agreed. Its the uncomfortable and intimidated by a foreign language and the associated undercurrent that has caused me to arch my eyebrow.

I have been a non-native speaker in an non-UK hospital. Obviously, the staff all spoke in their own language around me, some of which I could understand and they communicated with me in their own language as well. I didn't expect anything else , of course, but it added to my anxiety as a patient. I had to shut out their talk to each other and not make an issue of it. In the U.K., I don't expect to have that extra stress.

scottishdiem if you really think people have never said rude or unpleasant things in a conversation about a third party who doesn't understand the language then you must be hopelessly naive.
Just as an example my sister did feel intimidated when she found out what was been said about her in a foreign language. I won't go into details but it was sexist and threatening.They would't have said the same things in English.
Now that is an extreme example and I'm pretty sure that wasn't what was been said in this situation. But then, there's no way of knowing unless you actually speak the language yourself.
In any case, it doesn't have to be nasty to make someone feel intimidated, just the fact that they are not being fully informed, especially in a clinical setting.

scottish You indicated the post was proof of an invasion by Britain First-type views. It is not. To say so is an overreaction and a bit silly.

I have no idea why people post inflammatory views on threads such as this. Maybe they really believe them or maybe they're a bit bored on a Friday night.

I cannot believe that general members of the public still don't understand why this is a problem after all of this discussion.
First and foremost it is against NHS policy, you can't argue with that. Staff are governed by policy and by speaking amongst themselves in front of a patient in a language that is not English those nurses are not adhering to this. Of course it is ok to communicate with a patient in their own language if a staff member is able to. So an important aspect of an HCPs job is communication and the care we provide must be clear and transparent. It doesn't matter what these nurses were talking about, they shouldn't have been speaking in another language, which clearly made the patient who they were caring for uncomfortable, excluded and potentially heighten her existing anxiety.
I work in the mental health services. There were two incidents when I worked in the UK where staff spoke in another language in front of patients who were acutely psychotic. These patients became extremely paranoid about these staff members and believed that they were talking about them. This is just one example of the problems this can cause.
This is nothing to do with 'Little Englanders' or racism and I am shocked that others would suggest this.
If I were a patient in another country I would have no issues with the nurses in that country speaking their national language so long as an interpreter was provided to me. The point is that HCPs must communicate in the language of the country they are working in as it is what most of their patients and colleagues will understand.

* BACKTRACK ALERT 😱😱

I guess if so many people are suggesting that it would increase their anxiety then the nurses shouldn't do it. I only speak English but am often around people who speak different languages so I'm used to not being able to always understand what people around me are talking about. I might occasionally feel frustrated that I can't join in but have never felt 'excluded'. I can see now though that if you are feeling vulnerable in a hospital that it would be different and that you could feel you were being excluded.

YANBU! In fact, this is against policy in every health care setting I have ever worked in. I know for a fact in one place, they would have got a written warning for doing this in public areas, not even in front of a patient.

noeffingidea - I just have a different attitude to other peoples and cultures and their use of their language. The NHS would collapse without foreign staff. The NHS would also fall apart without the staff who are caring and committed to the health of their patients. If we are going to be intimidated and made uncomfortable by them then perhaps we shouldnt be recruiting them in the first place. Their ability to care and be nice has got through training and recruitment. Why would it disappear when using their own language? I get that there are the rules about not talking about things apart from patients when in earshot of patients. I get that some people want this and find it rude when it doesn't happen. But I still am not worried about foreign languages being spoken.

Sexist language is, unfortunately, global. Is it the language or the content that was intimidating to your sister?

I have been in an international hospital. Two of the Drs were from Pakistan and spoke to each other in Urdu. Some of the nurses were a group from Indonesia and spoke Malay to each other. Care was delivered in either English or via a translator to whatever the local language of that port was. The patients didnt seem intimidated. They seemed grateful that they were getting care.

They weren't just "in earshot" of the patient. They were actively treating her. You're minimising it. They were excluding her and not treating her like a human being they were charged with caring for, but as a fixture in the room while they did their job. And no, you clearly don't get it.

scottish now you're just being rude and ignorant.
You don't have a 'different attitude' to other cultures and languages. Most of us (at least in towns and cities) are completely used to and accepting of people speaking in their own languages, in the street, in shops, on public transport, etc. No problem at all, and for you to imply otherwise is akin to accusing us of being racists. But give yourself a pat on the back anyway for being oh so tolerant, multicultural, accepting and just virtuous than the rest of us.
Now, getting back to the OP, there are are reasons why this is unacceptable in the NHS within a clinical setting. Numerous posters on this thread, many of whom actually work within the NHS, have taken the time and trouble to explain why to you. But of course you refuse to accept that, you know best, etc etc.
Yes, the NHS would experience staffing difficulties without foreign staff. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be required to speak the official and majority language of Britain, which I believe is English or Welsh, depending on region, whilst they are being paid to, you know, work.
You're on ignore now (at least in my head since mumsnet doesn't have that function).

The NHS may struggle without foreign staff

But what has that got to do with being professional when at work

here is your halo for being so right on

And if you worked within the care profession you would know that sadly not all workers (both foreign and U.K. born) are not all wonderfully caring and professional like any sector you get slackers and sadly some bullies

Troll Would posters also object if they had had a chat about something which the OP couldn't have been included such as them chatting about some friends of theirs iyswim Would posters consider that would have amounted to the OP being excluded from the conversation too.

Yes.
As has been pointed out several times.

of course that would be rude though not quite as rude as doing it in another language

I think this is probably where a lot of the confusion lies.

One thing is that they broke protocol by speaking about someone unrelated to the patient's health while in her presence and the other is that they did this in a language that the patient couldn't understand.

sorry something unrelated to the patient's health

BBCNewsRave No need for the sarcastic reply I've said that I've changed my mind about this. Even though it wouldn't bother me in the slightest I now realize that it would bother at lot of other people some of whom may be feeling vulnerable.

Troll You confuse bluntless for sarcasm.

Apologies for not seeing your changed-mind reply. It was something that really frustrated me when caring for elderly people - other carers would talk over their heads as if they weren't there.

BBCNewsRave the language spoken isn't the point, is it? As you say in your work; it's the attitude.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that no staff members had spoken in a foreign language to each other while tending to me or in the same room in hospital even though there were a lot of nationalities working there.

My complaint was that a couple of consultants and one bed manager spoke over me in English as if I wasn't there. That made me angry rather than intimidated and I challenged it and received grudging apologies.

I say it didn't intimidate me but it did because after the fact I fleetingly felt worried that my bolshiness might go against me. I was being silly because though these people were rude and pompous, they weren't the kind of people who would ever do me physical harm.

But if you can't see how rocking the boat while extremely vulnerable would would worry someone, you don't have much imagination.

I never made a formal complaint, I asked people to speak to me properly - my MIL, who's a retired physio, encouraged me after the first bout of rudeness. Those members of staff were frostily polite every other time we met. But that's okay, I have other friends.

But the difficulty is in challenging it. In my case I was asking very senior staff to treat me as if I wasn't a piece of furniture. They didn't like that because they were used to behaving in an arrogant manner and getting their own way. They complied without a fuss though, because they were totally in the wrong and they knew it.

It's no different in this case. It's people in a position of power disregarding others.

It's hard to pull up a posh consultant but it's just as hard to object to the nurses in the OP's situation, especially when people are worried that they might be perceived as racist, xenophobic, nosy Little Englanders by the hospital administrators and then come on Mumsnet to be told it.

It was not unreasonable, but maybe a sign that nurses salaries are too low, or there are too few nurses, or both.

Nurses salaries are low so that means they can act unprofessionally? I'll try that on my employer and see where it gets me.

Are nurses's salaries low? I'm not sure they are, especially. I believe health trusts pay hand over fist for agency staff, but not being a NHS administrator I don't understand why they have to do that rather than employing full time medical staff on their own payroll or into whose pockets the money is going.

But in any case, that's not an excuse for poor behaviour and I'd like to think the many reputable nurses who do agency work would say the same.