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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the nurses shouldn't have spoken in a different language in front of me?

485 replies

ColouringTheBrain · 04/01/2017 18:56

If I start by saying I think our NHS staff do a great job Smile I'm not looking to be flamed, I genuinely want to know if I'm BU.

I had to go to the hospital today, the nurse that initially dealt with me was kind and gentle, also in the room was a colleague of hers ( another nurse). The nurse took my bloods, then went to get another machine, it was then that the two nurses started talking to each other in a different language ( I'm not trying to be vague, I just haven't got a clue what language it was). It made me feel really uncomfortable as it was directly in front of me, whether they were talking about me, or what's on TV, or other members of staff I feel is irrelevant, I felt like they shouldn't be doing it in front of a patient. Obviously I didn't say anything, I wasn't feeling the best anyway, but I also felt slightly intimidated I suppose.

AIBU, or should I just accept it as part of the care?

OP posts:
LittleBooInABox · 05/01/2017 17:43

I think YANBU

Namechangeemergency · 05/01/2017 18:16

Why would Welsh speakers be forced to speak English to Welsh speaking patients?

Surely that is the opposite of what the OP is describing Confused

scottishdiem · 05/01/2017 19:09

Mmmmm. Lots of defensive comments there. I live in a multi lingual household but only speak one language. Never bothers me that I don't understand what is being talked about when I am not in the conversation. The last two visits to hospital had staff talk about shite like who was winning some reality show and what was for dinner and how it was being cooked. Didn't care for either conversation so it didn't bother me and ignored it.

Have no clue about why conversations that were nothing to do with me have to be understood by me. Speaking English for English sake and patient approval and patient audit seems very off. I want medical care, not inside knowledge of hospital staff lives. And if they are talking about me then doing it in a language I don't know is exactly the same as doing it in English but out of earshot.

StripeyMonkey1 · 05/01/2017 19:12

Hmmm. What about if you have a deaf friend/child and you can speak but obviously sign to them. Is that rude? Should you speak and sign at the same time so everyone else in the room can know what you are saying? Why is it any of their business?

Sidge · 05/01/2017 19:18

Using sign language isn't comparable - it's communicating with someone unable to communicate in a language normally used i.e. speech. It's inclusionary rather than exclusionary.

That isn't the case in the OPs situation.

FreshStartJanuary · 05/01/2017 19:19

The situation as described in op is three people who share a common language. No need to exclude anyone.

BackforGood · 05/01/2017 19:37

Just a thought.
If the two hcps had carried on a conversation really quietly, that the OP could barely hear - would people consider that rude too? To my mind, it's the same thing. They had finished dealing with her, and then moved away and were speaking with each other. It's got nothing to do with the OP what their conversation was about, she wasn't part of it, so it doesn't matter what language they spoke.
What about if you are served in a cafe, then your transaction is finished, and the person serving you speaks to another member of staff in a different language - is that supposed to be offensive too, or does it only apply in hospitals?

Namechangeemergency · 05/01/2017 19:43

Why do people keep trying to shoehorn BSL into this? Confused
BSL is used by people who cannot access spoken English.
It is their only effective way of communicating.
They don't have the option of becoming a hearing, English user in order to be polite.
Its a total red herring.

or does it only apply in hospitals? I think that question has been answered several times. Hospital settings, social care settings, law etc are distinct areas where it is likely to be unsettling, intimidating, worrying to have conversations around you that you cannot understand.

In the case of the OP she didn't have a clue that they were talking about trivia because she couldn't understand them. Not the same as catching bits of a quiet conversation in your home language.

GerdaLovesLili · 05/01/2017 19:44

It's unprofessional and against staff NHS policy...
Here is an example
The chairman of the mental health trust, Gary Page, said in December in a board meeting he was concerned about complaints of staff talking a language patients did not understand.

The trust looked into the complaints and found that while no harm was caused, the two incidents “highlighted the importance of communication being understood by all”.

Namechangeemergency · 05/01/2017 19:44

Stripey it is perfectly normal for hearing BSL users to use speech with their signing. Lip patterns are a vital part of BSL.

Namechangeemergency · 05/01/2017 19:46

“highlighted the importance of communication being understood by all”

This includes non English speakers. All reasonable efforts should be made to ensure patients understand what is happening to them and around them.

This isn't about people hating foreigners, its about patients being treated with respect.

scottishdiem · 05/01/2017 20:02

What is the difference between a patient wanting to hear everything around them in English and Nigel Farage complaining that he didnt hear English being spoken until some suitably English rail stop?

GerdaLovesLili · 05/01/2017 20:11

The difference is, scottishdiem, that in public I, you and anyone else can speak any language they like and that's a good thing; but in this particular workplace, it is actually staff policy that the language spoken in the professional environment is the one that taught in the country's schools written on the country's sign posts and spoken in the country's parliament. The majority language that ensures that "communication is understood by all, and that no-one is excluded"

Why is it racist or unreasonable to expect that staff adhere to their own employer's staff policy?

venusinscorpio · 05/01/2017 20:12

Are you goady or just very very obtuse? The clear difference has been explained quite a few times.

scottishdiem · 05/01/2017 20:20

I just dont feel excluded when people arent speaking the same language as me when its not something I need an input into. I can understand that being asked questions and discussions around my care where I need to have an input need to absolutely be in my language. I just dont feel threatened if two other people converse in their own language. I think I will opt for obtuse and leave it there.

BratFarrarsPony · 05/01/2017 20:22

" What is the difference between a patient wanting to hear everything around them in English and Nigel Farage complaining that he didnt hear English being spoken until some suitably English rail stop"

oh here we go....

zoemaguire · 05/01/2017 20:30

Here we go indeed. I have to believe goady, because otherwise I think the word I'm searching for is obtuse.

For the hard of thinking: there is a difference between hearing other languages spoken around you in general terms, and other languages being used to exclude, when there is a situation where there are several people together in the same room in which there is an expectation of mutual interaction and communication.

How can this possibly need explaining?!

noeffingidea · 05/01/2017 20:40

Thats just you really scottishdiem. Most people prefer to be fully involved in their care, not just treated as part of the furniture.

scottishdiem · 05/01/2017 21:23

Fair enough noeffingidea although I did say that people should be involved in their care in the language they understand. Not sure that the nurses were excluding the OP for her care though as the conversation wasnt directed at her. I suppose I was just interested in the idea that the OP was uncomfortable and intimidated by people speaking a foreign language. Especially in an institution that relies so heavily on recruiting people from overseas anyway.

squiggleirl · 05/01/2017 21:48

And Britain First takes over a mumsnet thread. The xenophobia on this thread is alarming but does explain Brexit I suppose.

Yip, that's what it is. I thought I was getting away with coming across as some sort of rational person from a different country, but you're on to me. Hi. I'm squiggleirl. I'm one of the lesser known Irish members of Britain First. Having no vote, we secretly infiltrated mumsnet, twisted your brains to think foreigners were awful (oh the irony), and got you to vote to leave the EU. But here's the best part. It was all a trick. Now we can say 'Cooey Mr US Multinational. Look at us. Thanks to that crowd across the way, we now like speaking English all the time. Come here with those jobs.' The ultimate one finger to the empire.

And there was me thinking this thread was about treating people properly in hospital.....

noeffingidea · 05/01/2017 21:55

scottishdiem you seem to be missing the point. The patient is the most important person in the room and communication should be centred around them. How is that possible if she can't even understand what is being said?
Communication and trust is a vital part of health care and that is why this is often considered a disciplinary matter.
There is a difference between a social situation and a professional one and it's perfectly normal to have rules about speaking English (or other appropiate language) just as it's normal to have a dress code or rules about acceptable internet use, eg. There are reasons for these rules, you just cant do whatever you want to when you're at work.

scottishdiem · 05/01/2017 22:04

noeffingidea As I said. Obtuse.

Person centred care is important and good communication is key to that. But not all communication is about care. Not all communication is about patients. I just dont find foreign languages uncomfortable and intimidated. If the OP had posted saying the nurses are only supposed to communicate about care issues in earshot of the patient and she was disappointed about the rudeness then I probably wouldn't have responded. But to be uncomfortable? But to be intimidated? By foreign people speaking their own language to themselves. I will never understand or accept that to be honest.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 05/01/2017 22:18

My dad talks in a different language when he doesn't want us to understand (can understand a little) it amuses me and friends will talk to their parents and I can't understand

But that is a very different situation to when you are in hospital and many patients will be feeling anxious and wondering what are they talking about making them feel more anxious. It's not really comparable to hearing different a different language spoken at home/out with friends

And if it's not about the patient you are not meant to be having a personal chit chat while with patients

zoemaguire · 05/01/2017 22:18

Scottish diem so I'll ask you too, since nobody replied upthread. You are with 4 people in a pub. 3 of them are bilingual english-french. You speak only english. You're telling me you are happy with them chatting to each other in french all evening, leaving you staring into the mid distance? Not uncomfortable? Seriously?

zoemaguire · 05/01/2017 22:19

Sorry, my maths is out, but you get the idea!