To refuse to help a fallen elderly person

[littlebillie]

I had to help my FIL up tonight he had fallen and my MIL needed assistance getting him back in his feet. My back now hurts and AIBU to refuse to help again as they normally call an ambulance.

Dementia can cause people to fall for no apparent reason, and no amount of falls prevention or zimmer frames will make any difference. I've seen this with a very close relative. Their home was deemed unsafe, but they weren't tripping on anything. Legs simply gave way. Problem resolved when mobility became so reduced they became wheelchair dependant. Problem solved. No walking - no falling.

Repeated calls for paramedics to lift people won't be tolerated by the NHS. Eventually regular carer visits will be recommended or a move to a care home.

You can get lifting equipment for use at home, similar to that used by paramedics, eg an inflating device.

Those of you saying "get him a pendant alarm", I'm not sure what good that would do in this situation. My DM had one and if shepressed it the careline called paged through to her house. If she didn't respond, the phoned the next door neighbour (a slight lady of 75). If they couldn't make contact they ........called an ambulance!

My now deceased NDN used to fall often. He had a pendant - he didn't wear it. It was often to be seen on the mantle piece where he couldn't even reach it from the floor. My DH was often called by the wife to help lift him from the floor.

Around these parts we already have long waits for an ambulance for a major emergency. People who fall will be lucky to get a response within 1 1/2 hrs. There was a case of a 70+ year old man who fell outside and had a suspected broken leg who was left for this length of time as the ambulances kept getting diverted to priority cases. This is not an isolated incident. Last time I rang for an ambulance for my DD we waited 45 mins - it was a Red 2 call for status epilepticus!

Falls prevention teams are good but my experience is there is a waiting list. My DM fell in November and was admitted to hospital overnight. The referral came through in February for a physio visit by which time she had been re-admitted to hospital following another fall. She never came home.

All aspects of the NHS are in meltdown. We each need to do what we feel is best and appropriate at the time.

I think it all depends on the frailty of FIL and how old he is if I'm honest. They probably didnt want to ring an ambulance as they knew they'd be waiting an age.
My narc Mum fell a week after having an op. She was offered carers before she left hospital and point blank refused as she's too independent /stubborn/didn't need them. She has a history of falling and has an on call button. The one time she fell in my house she weighed an absolute tonne and I physically couldn't pick her up by myself and that was before my health problems. She should have pressed the on call button but her friend rang the paramedics instead. My niece and my BIL told her to hang on and they'd be there in ten minutes. She was having none of it. The paramedics had to stay with my mum for almost 3hours whilst an ambulance vehicle became available to her to take her to A&E. Where she was subsequently checked over and discharged within 30minutes. Despite the paramedics telling her that they have to prioritise the heart attack / breathing problems etc issues which is why she was waiting, and having a daughter who often needs paramedics on red alert due to asthma (me). She did nothing but complain about the wait . If she'd have waited calmly for those ten minutes for my built like a brick shit house strapping 6ft BIL to get to her and stayed on the phone to my Niece whilst she waited. He could have helped her up when he got there and arranged for her GP located across the road to her to visit and check her over.

A frail person however, who literally can't move, and is more at risk of complications / dislocations if left on the floor too long or moved incorrectly. Of course paramedics should be called to help.

OP. I used to work with a spritely Judge who had terrible back problems from time to time. If your back problem was anything like theirs YNBU to feel you were not able to help safely.

A lot of pendant services dispatch their own staff to visit in the first instance and call an ambulance if necessary. You just have to check out the services and select a suitable one

Wolverbampton that is very interesting, I have just started a thread (on the elderly parents section) asking if anyone has any recommendations or advice on personal alarm services. (Prompted by this thread I must admit)

I didn't realise some services will send their own member of staff out. If anyone on this thread has any experience I would be most grateful. Sorry op to sort of hijack, but perhaps the info would be useful to you as well!?

I used to work for a service but I'm afraid they were extremely local- the covered a small part of west London- any use?

Don't feel bad about calling an ambulance, will cost a lot less than treatment for your bad back. (If there is a falls service that would be good also).

But you need to look at why he has fallen and why he can't get up. Consider that he could have a urinary tract infection (uti) which can cause confusion, bad temper, and muscle weakness. I cannot stress enough what a big effect this can have. I thought a relative was starting with dementia and Parkinson's but he had uti which took a few months of different antibiotics to clear up and he is ok now. He could also be having small strokes. Raise this with ambulance staff/his gp

Also, try and get him a referral to physio/ot for an assessment (and a telling off for not using his frame). He might listen to them when he won't listen to you. He needs to learn again how to move safely.

And the gp often has a link person who can come out and refer you to other services and advise you about help that may be available (alarm button, assessment for grab rails etc).

It is hard to say no and it is hard to be pushy about getting other services involved when they insist they don't need it. Often it is down to fear of their own frailty. Sorry you're dealing with this.

Depends.

I work in a care home, if a frail person falls and is showing no signs of serious injury then we will generally lift them

If a heavier person falls and is showing no signs of injury we use an electric hoist to lift them

We had one man fall and although he said he was fine we knew he had broke his hip from the position of his legs, in these cases if we know or suspect an injury like that we call for an ambulance

If you have a back injury I wouldn't be attempting to lift anyone, light or heavy

It is hard to say no and it is hard to be pushy about getting other services involved when they insist they don't need it

I agree. But the problem I found when I was the main carer for my mum a good few years ago was her. I contacted adult SS and OT to try and get her the help she needed. They were attentive and listened and said they'd help where they could and spoke about getting x y and z for her. One phone call to DM later where she told them "I dont need any help, I'm fine" meant they couldn't help any further even though they were willing too. So the OP should tell her Mum that they both need to have a calm chat with FIL at some point that needing assistance isn't about stripping their independence, assistance is about helping him maintain it.

I work for a large LA as part of a team who answer emergency calls to older people who have activated their pull cords/pendant alarms. They live in our sheltered housing blocks though Ciutadella which is probably not much help to you. We carry lifting cushions so we can lift uninjured people who have fallen. They are Mangar Elk lifting cushions. They ain't cheap but you can buy them privately.

Repeated calls for paramedics to lift people won't be tolerated by the NHS. Eventually regular carer visits will be recommended or a move to a care home.

And what about the position my inlaws are in? They have a carer coming in for my MiL but she can't be there 24/7 and there is not one single nursing home space available. Their GP has been relentlessly trying but there is just nothing. She was very unwell in the lead up to Christmas, the emergency doc was out numerous times. We were told she'd had a TIA amongst other things (she lost her eyesight for a few days but it is happening more frequently). We were told that because she has Alzheimers it would be too distressing to admit her to hospital. It's awful to see her suffering the way she is.

We care for several people who fall on an almost daily basis, local authority won't fund care homes unless there is no alternative at all. Ambulance services are provided under contract, NHS and Local authorities are not involved.

Our local council has a community falls team who come out (provided the person is registered on the alarm scheme). They then call for medical assistance if you need it. I am trained to handle patients but I am still not prepared to do it in a home environment with untrained relatives as assistants and no kit. So you get no criticism from me.

Council team have a totally magic airlift cushion device. I've seen it used quite a few times and amazed at how great it is. We now have have one at work too to get patients up off the floor....

mangarhealth.com/uk/store/product/patient-lifting/elk-lifting-cushion/

This one is for sitting patients but they also come for patients who are lying flat.

Has he had a review of his tablets. DM was falling regularly. She was referred to the Falls Clinic and taking of Sertraline she has been fine ever since.

A lot of pendant services dispatch their own staff to visit in the first instance and call an ambulance if necessary. You just have to check out the services and select a suitable one

DM has one of these and if she falls (thankfully she hasn't so far) they will ring me or DH. Neither of us can lift her as she's a large lady and we both have back problems so an ambulance would have to be sent. DM's is a local authority one that was recommended to us.

OP:

What a shame for you.

If you lifting them means injuring yourself then YANBU