To refuse to help a fallen elderly person

[littlebillie]

I had to help my FIL up tonight he had fallen and my MIL needed assistance getting him back in his feet. My back now hurts and AIBU to refuse to help again as they normally call an ambulance.

I would always look to a burly neighbor or two or three. It really is hard to lift a dead weight.

Though said burly neighbours will get fed up pretty quick if falls are regularly.

My Grandma used to have a home care button on a necklace so she could press it if she fell. No one came out though, they used to call a family member to go and help her up. Used to be very difficult as she was a large women and disabled, I would definitely say call an ambulance, it used to really hurt my Dads back too and had a lasting effect.

Yanbu.
I would ring for an ambulance to have them checked over. Last time my elderly relative fell she ended up in hospital for 6 weeks getting the physio, food, care, equipment and referral to a falls clinic that she needed. If we hadn't have rang she would have got much worse and maybe unable to recover.

You are not meant to help lift someone whos fallen in case of injuries. Call an ambulance. You shouldnt be getting injured lifting someone. The chair works well.

If someone falls, being a martyr and aggregating an existing injury is rather stupid. Also, if they're a dead weight there's a risk the lift attempt will fail and they'll fall again as you're attempting to right them, causing further injury. Calling an ambulance is the best thing you can do, both for you and the fallen relative. As for the poster who said you need to wait hours, presumably the person whose fallen isn't in danger... a couple of hours of inconvenience is surely better than weeks of injury.

I would always look to a burly neighbor or two or three. It really is hard to lift a dead weight.

I don't understand the reluctance to call an ambulance.... this is unfair on those you're asking and potentially damaging to the person whose fallen who requires may require medical attention.

Of course yanbu.

You could do yourself more harm and because you're already injured, you could harm them more.

If he chooses not to use the zimmer frame, this is the consequence. He's got the right to expect you to help him. But the help needs to be unharmful to you and following guidance is the best way to help

I'm an auxiliary nurse - we are taught never to manually lift anyone at all , we have lifting aids and devices to get patients off the floor. I would be dialling 999.

Will also quote another part of my training - 'falls are not an inevitable part of getting older'. FIL needs an assessment that takes into account medications, dehydration, bladder and bowel, general mobility (arthritis, neurological issues), cognition, blood pressure and heart health, hazards in the home (slippy floors, stairs, objects left lying that can be tripped on). I would hope dialling 999 might go some way to prompting a full assessment, certainly if FIL required admission , but if not I'd have MIL and FIL see the GP asap.

The thing is as well, I've cared for patients who after a fall have had neck fractures (ranging from relatively minor to requiring full halo traction), spinal fractures, broken hips, broken arms, broken legs, bleeding into the brain, facial fractures.. Depends on the severity of the fall, age, gender and general health as to what the results might be but certainly all of the above you could make a lot worse by lifting the person. A paramedic would be able to assess for fractures and immobilise the spine/neck if they felt necessary etc. It's just much safer all round to call for help.

It isn't easy though, I remember my wee great granny falling years ago and the out of hours doctors said not to attempt to lift her at all but not to bother an ambulance either (my grandparents wouldn't dream of dialling 999 unless life or death anyway). Unfortunately it took 4 hours for anyone to arrive from OOH, and by that time they needed an ambulance anyway. Hopefully that doesn't happen anymore.

OT assessments etc are of course a good idea. The problem is that the elderly person has to consent to all that. And if they don't consent to being referred, it can be rather difficult.

I suppose the reluctance to call an ambulance is because we have all had it drilled into us from as soon as we understood 999 that an ambulance is only for life and death situations.

Until reading this thread I had no idea that you were supposed to call an ambulance each time an elderly person falls. And in my father's case, that could mean a 999 call once a day. It just doesn't seem practical.

This is a really problem for te ambulance service- people who often have nothing wrong with them medically, but just need picking up.

You should get him a pendant alarm service and pay for it instead

With the number of elderly people on the increase, I cannot see why people are so blasé about calling an ambulance if someone falls. The likelihood of an otherwise healthy person breaking their back or neck with a fall is minuscule. "Don't move them" is good advice if someone has fallen headlong down a flight of stairs, or off a ladder and are unconscious or screaming in agony. But for the majority of falls, it is perfectly acceptable to help someone up.

Our daughter has cerebral palsy and falls all the time. If I called an ambulance every time she fell, they'd be permanently camped in our drive. And, yes, after years of having to lift her my back is fucked, but that's what we do for family. If I was that upset about hurting my back, I'd spend more time learning how to lift her properly without hurting my back.

Of course the NHS gives their staff advice not to lift patients alone and to use hoists. This is because they have a duty of care to their employees, and are liable if someone is injured. The advice is generally because of the health of the staff, not the comfort of the patient. Having an elderly relative be forced to lie on a ward toilet floor for an hour when they fell because "the manual handling team" were busy, shows this is never about patient comfort.

To be whinging about a sore back, when MIL is caring for FIL daily and seems not to be getting the right help to do so is incredibly selfish. If I saw someone fall in the street, of course I would offer to help them up, and help them home, and help them any other way I could.

No wonder the NHS is on it's last legs - pun unintended. If I called an ambulance every time an elderly relative fell I'd probably have to have a dedicated team on standby just for them.

I'd help because I'm a carer so know how to move and handle people safely. However, when I worked in community care we had to call an ambulance (it was complany policy as a lot of calls only had one carer there). We made them comfy, stayed with them at all times, reassured them and chatted to them until paramedics arrived. I hated not being allowed to help as it goes against my nature but I would have lost my job. Now I work in a care home and we obviously are allowed to help people up if they fall.

OP, ignore all the saints who are happy to fuck their backs to get someone up. A fucked back can be permanent ( mine is) and cost the NHS plenty.

Do what you suggest and wait to see if the ambulance staff criticise you or suggest you should have done it yourself. They won't. They know how to assess for injuries such as fractured hips. Also, the elderly very often fall in awkward spaces such as the bathroom.

A pendant alarm won't help if people are with the fallen person. They raise the alarm not raise the person into a vertical line.

It isn't a case that you're 'refusing to help' which would be unreasonable, but you aren't able to lift your father in law without injuring yourself which is entirely reasonable.

Absolutely, this is such an irritating thread and thread title. Why start it?? I mean, what did you want to gain from it? Attention?

It sounds as if he needs to use a zimmer and get a stair lift and close attention paid when he's moving. It is an irritating thread.

I wouldnt call an ambulance every time an elderly relative fell. Quite often where I live (rural) you'd wait forever as it wouldn't be a priority.
Perhaps you and your family need to speak to your in laws about how to get him some help/advice for his frequent falling or get a pendant alarm.
Having said that I have a family member who is a paramedic and spends a great deal of time picking elderly people up off the floor from 999 calls so you're not alone in your thinking.

If you call NHS 24 they may be able to put you through to the emergency falls team. Saves you calling 999

Where was your DH?

YABU. If he isn't injured and can be helped up then of course you should not waste an ambulance. Nobody is suggesting you lift him but getting him to sitting or hands and knees then up is not going to kill you.
He needs referral to a Falls service, by sound of it.
Your back isn't a huge problem -best cure for a bad back is exercises and keep going.

I don't think it's practical to call an ambulance. Rather than calling an ambulance could you not call round a few relatives? Even calling them out of work is more appropriate than ringing an ambulance. And yes I think as family it is your 'job' just learn to do it correctly and not on your own.

You need to sort his house out so it's safer for him. He need aids and adaptations to minimise the risk of him falling. If I didn't have mine I'd be on the floor all the time. When I do fall DH, or if the kids are here, pick me up. It wouldn't occur to me to call an ambulance, but then I don't fancy the idea of waiting for 4 hours on the floor for a non-urgent call.

Can't he get one of those alarms to alert people to come and help him if he falls? There's a fee, but it's not much I don't think.

Every time you call an ambulance they will assess your father. You can't see if there is any damage on the inside? Professionals are trained in lifting and handling. They can also make referrals to the appropriate agencies. There could be underlying issues causing the fails? Better safe than sorry IMHO.