To expect school to admit that it's not the right place

[Becks84]

I have a six year old boy with special needs (ADHD) in year one at a voluntary aided primary school. He had lots of problems throughout reception but as he was only diagnosed in September the school felt prior to this there'd be no point apply for an ehcp or top up funding. We went back to school in Septemebr with his official diagnosis and the Senco and head teacher told us that there's no point applying for an ehcp as it wouldn't change anything and it wouldn't be a good idea for our boy to have one to one as he won't learn to work independently. Well from that point on things went downhill for my son at school. His behaviour become drastically worse ie hitting teachers other kids and staff, spitting, swearing etc and he's tried to run off school grounds numerous times.

By October there'd been a turn around and all of a sudden school decided it would be best to apply for finding and the ehcp. They have referred him to the behaviour improvement team and had specialists come in and observe him. All this in my opinion, has come to late as my son isn't coping. Hes been excluded from school four times this term and his last one which was for a full week (the last week before Xmas) had a terrible affect on him as he was crying constantly asking why he can't go to school and see his friends. In my opinion school have purposely given such a long exclusion so that he was out of the way the last week before term, and they more or less admitted this when I confronted them. They said that what with all the change that week would bring they felt he wouldn't cope.

My issue is that despite the fact they keep excluding him they won't admit they can't cope and that it's not the right school for him.

Because of the mixed messages and crap communication from school I've had to seek independent help from an organisation who are specialised in school procedures, law, exclusions etc. A woman contacted me back and agreed to come to all of our school meetings as a back up for me and to make sure they are doing things to the letter. The Senco is completely hopeless if I'm being honest and won't tell you straight how things are and dodges any questions I have. School have applied for ehcp and top up funding but this was only two weeks ago and the deputy head has told me that they may have no choice but to permanently exclude my son before any of the support (from the behaviour team) or funding and ehcp can be put into place. The deputy head was the only one to tell me straight and how serious the situation is, and whilst I appreciate that I can't help but panic now as I know my son won't last long in January before he's excluded again. I just don't udberstand why the school would apply for all this extra support but then are willing to exclude him before it can start. Surely they need to give him a chance and to see if things improve before threatening us with permanent exclusion. Am I being unreasonable here?

I have a child with complex needs and we have an EHCP and I know plenty of other families. It is hard to get but hardly a 'rare' thing.

Please move this post to the SN children board where there will be loads of advice about the EHCP process and what school can and cant do. It sounds like the school are not coping at all well but that your son is suffering because of their inability to cope. You need every single incident documented, the support that is in place to be logged and also warn the school that as his needs are now identified (ie he needs full time 1:1) that failure to provide this amounts to disability discrimination. Whilst I appreciate they dont have the funding that is not your problem, it is up to them to sort out.

There are no "criteria" for an EHCP and each case should be judged individually. If a child needs more than can routinely be provided in the way of support then an EHCP should result. It does however seem that routinely the LA will decline to assess, then you appeal, when they do assess they decline to issue an EHCP - you appeal etc. Be prepared to have to fight for this at every step.

There is no money in Education at all so a EHCP is rarely given

Not true. Currently around 237,000 children and young people have statements or EHCPs.

The EHCP is about the child and their needs and is legally binding for the LA (and now the Health Authority if applicable) to ensure those needs are met and provided for. When it gets to the proposed stage, it is sent to the school(s) of choice and they get their say on whether they will be able to meet those needs or not. I don't doubt LAs will pressure schools to accept but it is for the schools' management to argue the case with the LA for more funding, not to make parents feel bad that they have a costly child.

The funding behind them is complex and I have recently encountered the view that an EHCP is a negative thing for the school when considering secondary schools for DS1, as they legally have to provide what is detailed but it doesn't automatically equate to extra funding to do so. I thought the SENCo was going to break out into a dance when he saw DS1's doesn't stipulate a constant TA or equivalent. It's not ideal, but it isn't something I can get bogged down in either tbh. A child like the OP's who is 6, has had multiple exclusions, is behind academically, struggling socially and has a diagnosis is exactly the kind of child who needs to have an EHCP and funding for it is outside of parental control.

I don't have time to write much but I didn't want to ignore your thread. Your ds may be able to manage in a mainstream setting but he is definitely in the wrong place. They sound hopeless. You need to start looking around.

We just got a parent request for ehcp funded first time no problems. They said 96% of patent request ehcp are granted by our la. Don't know how many come with funding but I doubt it's only ours. We got band 4 for ours. One in special unit the other mainstream.

Oh and no diagnosis yet for mine but several expected. Camhs, peads, GPS, ot, salt, ed psych reports all looked at and taken serioysly

I'm an Assistant SENCO, and can only reiterate what teachergirl says. SEN funding is limited, at our school we have more kids who need TA intervention, than TAs.

In the old days, kids came in with statemented hours, which funded specialist support for a set number of hours. Sadly, the funding isn't there, we have a third less TAs than we had five years ago, with twice as many SEN students.

A similar thing happened to my friends ds, who was 8 at the time. He was permenantly excluded into a PRU, who were fantastic! They got him an EHCP and the support he needed. He now has a dx of ASD with behavioural issues, and is in a special school for kids with Emotional Behavioural Difficulties. Right first you need to have a meeting with your SENDIAS rep, school senco, and the headteacher, I would strongly ask the senco to take it back to the LEA, and ask for a managed move into a PRU. Basically your poor ds, is suffering because of school failings and this is not acceptable, you have to fight this, and not accept crap from them.

My ds has just started school in Sept, he has a dev delay, and speech delay, the term before, we had a meeting with the SENCO to see what provision is going to be in place for him in September, and where to go next. He has top up funding and 121 due to the school, and he is doing very well, but they will apply for an EHCP as he learning gap between him and his peers is widening and the SENCO and teacher are worried about him struggling. It is a fantastic school which is clued up on SN.

I understood that there is funding attached to an EHCP that's the whole point of it, so money can be provided to help the school meet the needs of the child stipulated in the EHCP.

Aeroflot, there are two types of funding attached to EHCPs. The first £6000 of costs are expected to be met out of funding delegated to the school which is calculated on the basis of the number of children in the school with SN (including those who do not have EHCPs), and the rest has to be met by the LA.

EHCPs should still come with hours of support properly defined and therefore funded, though it is true to say that local authorities are worse than ever about detailing the support needed properly. Schools do not help themselves by failing to ensure that their staff are properly trained in what an EHCP should look like, and failing to complain if support is not properly specified.

Thank you for all the wonderful advice. I just feel so overwhelmed at the minute and wasn't sure what best to do. We have a meeting set up with the schools Senco, class teacher, Sendiass and the behaviour team for February but I'm going to see if we can move it forward to next month. If things continue the way they have been doing then my ds won't be there done February. I am looking at other schools. Ideally I'd like him either in a specialist school (it won't happen though) or another community primary. I don't really want him to go to another Catholic or CofE school as like people have said, they get even less funding from the government. The only issue with that is there are only two schools locally that aren't faith schools and both are full. But anyway I'll consider out options and I'll go over to the Sen boards. Thanks x

I am a bit by the misinformation by teachers on this thread but sadly not surprised.

You definitely can get an EHCP on behavioural grounds. Not least because behaviour as the OP describes will be impacting her ds's learning (as well of course of the other children in the classroom). I know this because my ds has one (although his challenging behaviour is a result of AS rather than ADHD). Like others we were told the myth that an academically bright child would not qualify for an EHCP. Agreement to assess ds1 was granted on first parental request.

Once a primary school has started excluding they are clearly sending out a message that they can not meet needs. The one benefit of this is that it gives you indisputable evidence that he needs more support. My ds's school did permanently exclude during the assessment process but for ds it meant that he finally got the support he needed and he is doing well. So as heartbreaking it was at the time it has been for the best in the long run.

Whilst an EHCP will not give you an open door to a specialist school (LA's will generally contest due to their high cost) you definitely need one in order to have a hope of gaining a place. Not saying he needs a specialist school as with appropriate support he may well thrive in mainstream.

An EHCP contrary to popular opinion is not about giving money to the school or a 1:1 TA glued to the child's side all day it is about ensuring that the child receives appropriate support. For instance ds does not need a 1:1 TA all day but does need extra support during group activities to reduce anxiety and teach him social skills and this is what is written into his plan.

I know it's a long way off but it is worth knowing that an EHCP can support continued full funding for education until a young person is 25, whereas other children have to start paying for their tuition at 19. An EHCP is definitely worth getting.

If it helps to reassure you regarding transport; I teach in a specialist provision. The students who don't live in the attached children's home are brought in everyday by taxi from their homes in the three local towns/cities. All of these taxis are LEA funded.

Yes, I know a boy with ADHD that still has support at Univesity. We fought long and hard for his funding and his parents were and are still very grateful.
Sorry to hear you have had such a difficult time. Have they ever had a child with ADHD before? We have had quite a few children through of varying degrees of difficulties and also children with ASD needs therefore our school is quite good at processing everything. It does take a long time and it is frustrating for the school as well as the parents. There is less funding available. Can I ask if you have any medical support? I always find that the parents that seek a medical report get more support and if the school isn't willing to go for an EHCP then the parent can go through the GP.
I 'm not keen on Ritilan but in some cases I have seen a remarkable improvement in children. Have you consider this? There is also a dietary method. You do need to be rigid and complete it over a few months but it can help. Some children are actually allergic to certain foods and it can affect the level of hyperactivity. They can also crave these foods so are eating more than the normal amount. Tomatoes are one of the foods. I advise a mum about this to be told but she eats them every day. Her DD improved when they were eliminated from her diet. I hope this is of some support and that things improve for him soon.

transport is still often a battle. my LA tries to deny transport if there is a school closer to home who could meet the child's needs (in the LA's eyes, though this is often debatable). A lot of children are pushed towards travel training (I know some with ASD and significant learning diffs) which is unsuitable and parents end up taking them while the appeal is pending.
Often taxis collect a number of kids resulting in very long travel times for those picked up first. Transport can be great round here it is a battle and lots of parents end up appealing.

Just wanted to add my support. We were in a similar place to you two years ago - my son kept getting excluded until they finally asked us to leave (independent school). It at least pushed us to get his ADHD diagnosis. He then spent a year in a SEN class of 6 kids at a different school and is now in mainstream with 1:1 support. Totally diffferent, much happier boy.

We live outside the UK so can't advise on echp etc but agree with advice that you should start looking elsewhere, even if it just means you'll feel like you have backups/other options. Have you started medication too? Best of luck.

I agree that the school keep excluding my son is a clear indicator that they cannot meet his needs. For some reason though they won't admit this. I was told by the Senco that a child can be excluded up to 45 times in a year and as we aren't at that point yet I shouldn't worry! Then the deputy head just told me straight that my son is hanging on by a thread and if he's excluded again then it will result in a permanent exclusion. I may be being paranoid here but I feel like this was the plan all along. I mean why apply for all this supper from specialists but then continue to keep excluding him. I feel as though they have done this to make it seem that they've done all they can, and ticked every box but that they have no intention of keeping him there.

The school itself is in my opinion a bit middle class (I'm not lol) and they have a very small number of children with Sen, on free school meals etc. My dd is thriving there but then again she's a very bright, well behaved, agreeable child who works hard. So she meets their high expectations, but clearly my son does not.

He's not medicated at the moment as he's too young, according to the paediatrician but the Senco and head teacher keep asking me repeatedly about it. I'm sick to death of repeating myself and telling them that medication hasn't even been discussed yet and I'm not about to just let him go on it without looking into the pros and cons. I know deep down that the school isn't the right place for him and I feel guilty for sending him there to be honest but would he be the same in another mainstream school, as like people have said, the education budget has been slashed and most schools are struggling. I just don't know what to do for the best x

Nice middle class schools with limited experience of SN are often the worst environment for someone like your son - they won't have a clue. Another mainstream school may do a lot better.

The specialist schooling options available vary massively depending on where you live. I live in a small LA with quite a range of options, the two much larger LA's either side of it have next to nothing.

Nice guidelines recomend medication as a first line treatment from 7 I believe. But it isn't easy to find the right med combo, and even that isn't a perfect fix. I'd say I have alot of luck with my adhd Meds in that I seem to get alot of benefit with minimal side effects and even then on my favourite combo I'd say I have max 15% difference imo. It has other knock on effects though, like because I can focus with a bit less effort I can manage a bit more socialising so feel happier because of that, or I feel less frustreated with my terriex organisation. Some cggs will medicate earlier, but I'd be cautious because I doubt many kids can recognise or communicate the side effects in the same way older kids can. If sleep is a problem a pead can prescribe melatonin (my kids have had this since 4, it's just a naturally occurring hormone kids with developmental disorders don't have enough of) and if anxiety is the issue camhs may consider anti anxiety Meds (less likely).

I would be very careful about restricting duet using gap diet or similar- science has debunked the later and with many kids who have nuerodevelopmental conations having sensory issues with food sometimes cutting out ones the will eat leave less optimal nutrion which doesn't help with focus. It's actu ally down on my social service files that my mother's religious adherence to supposedly curative diets was child abuse and part of them suspecting her mBP. It's up there with cure autism groups and their snake oils cures and sweat therapies and excessive over supplementation of minerals. Atleast do your research before thinking about these.

I suspect the reason the school officially has a small number of children with SEN is that the Senco clearly doesn't know her job. It's worth looking around other schools because having a clued-up Senco who takes the job seriously can make a big difference.

I agree it's frightening how many teachers seen to have such major misconceptions about EHCPs and SEN generally. I fully accept it's not their fault because they're not properly trained and have an awful lot on their plates already, but it's a real shame when children lose out on vitally-needed help as a result. Schools really need to be proactive about getting the staff properly trained on their legal responsibilities with regard to SEN and disabilities.

Yet another mainstream school not managing a child with SEN. Too too many of them out there and too many children suffering as a result. Thank heaven I have managed to get my DS into a special school. Too few places around and too many LEA staff who don't want to fund them anyway.
Balancing the budget at the expense of children's emotional wellbeing is what I think this is.

Get angry OP, your DS deserves much much better.

We moved from the supposedly perfect very middle class school with outstanding ofsted results to one with poorer ofsted, but lots of kids with sen, a specialist unit attached, and lots of kids of different ethnicities and a variety of family make ups which is so much nicer for all those reasons also.

Actually the standard medical view on diet etc is slowly changing (as in seeing it can be beneficial in some cases). Gut bacteria seem to be the new big thing in all sorts of conditions (& I was laughed at 15 years ago for mentioning it).

I'd be careful about drugs - if you do end up trying them ask about how long you will try, how you will judge success, what you will do if positive effects seem to plateau after a couple of weeks. My son eventually went on meds aged 15 and is now stuck on one that is giving him lots of side effects & isn't doing much good. God knows how we'll ever get him off them. He is also stuck on a heavy duty one given to counter the side effects of the first. Bit of a joke really - but not funny.