To think westerners shouldn't smoke

[TonaldDrump]

On holiday abroad right now in Asia. We've been staying at a resort where there are loads of Scandinavians, Dutch and Brits.

It really bothers me when they just light up in places they'd never do at home. We were sitting in a cafe and someone (Scandinavian) started smoking next to us. A Brit did the same at another restaurant.

Locals, including local tourists I can understand because there isn't a no- smoking culture here but anyone from northern or Western Europe or Northern America should have it ingrained that it's disgusting and unhealthy for those around them and it should be second nature.

It feels like they're just taking advantage even though they know it's anti-social!

It's disgusting, right? Or aibu?

@Olivia: what if other's were already doing it?

Rose I didn't understand the OP like this at all.
What I understood was
The reason why smoking is NOT allowed in the uk indoors is because it's bad people's health. If you have internalized this message and think it is important, why would you do it when you are abroad? As the reason why it isn't nice is the same in every country so where you are doesn't matter?

dancing I have to say, it's not something I have ever heard anyone saying. Actually my feeling is that this would be a major faux pas. I wouldn't dare saying anything like this on MN
Fair enough if you really think like this but I suspect a lot of people don't.

Olivia yep I'm sure this is where it's coming from. At least I don't feel like a paria. And that feels nice.
It's an interesting discussion on the tension between what I know I ought to do and what I really want to do as well as do I only follow a rule because it's the law (and I will do even if said law is stupid IMO but as soon as the law isn't there I will jump at the opportunity) or because I truly believe it's the best choice (for the society, people around me, even if it is an inconvenience for me) and therefore I don't need a law to do/not do xx.

Ah see I read it as the locals should be able to as it is their country but the tourists from the western world shouldn't. So one rule for one and one for the others.

Also the reason smokers don't some in pubs etc in England is because it's the law, most smokers would happily go back to smoking inside if there was no fear of a fine

Btw I am a smoker but hate smoking in restaurants and it annoys me when others smoke when people are eating. But I would spark up at a bar given half the chance!

Also agree wouldn't smoke on a terrace unless others already were, you just don't know the rules for outside yet as it changes everywhere!

The smoking ban has been "hugely beneficial" to the health of workers. The evidence is incontrovertible. We know this. Health education in the UK informs us of this.

To go abroad and smoke when you know it harms the health of others is massively selfish and exploitative. You do not have the excuse of ignorance, your actions harm others you know this.

In terms of imperialism, it is the worst type of cultural imperialism to be aware of the harm and not do it at home but be happy to cause harm to workers abroad.

The 'choose not to work there' argument is ludicrous in the UK and is even more offensive when related to poorer countries. The worst type of Western capitalist exploitation.

But everyone draws their moral line in different places. I support the right of workers to do their job free from harm anywhere in the world. I think this is a basic human right.

I don't think anyone who smokes knowing the risks of it is a particularly bright spark.

But it's their health to ruin, so god speed.

This really is a thread for the sad and lonely. It's Christmas day

You as well user cheers

Yep, once again smokers it seems on mnet is the one group People are allowed to mock and call names
Ofcourse nobody clever or educated ever smoked

Yep, once again smokers it seems on mnet is the one group People are allowed to mock and call names hmm

The whole thread is full of people disagreeing with the OP...

kalil100 Smokers, their health and their level of education are irrelevant. I have no interest or concern for smokers.
I am very concerned for people working in unhealthy and dangerous environments. Working in a bar full of smoke is bad for you. I support the right of people to work free from harm, as I said this should be a basic human right. Smokers deny others this right.

MN is the most pro smoking website I have ever come across.

I once complained about people smoking in a bus stop shelter where there were signs all over the place saying no smoking and 99% told me i was very unreasonable and the no smoking signs weren't legally enforceable. so they were right to smoke there. I was stuck in said shelter for over an hour waiting for late bus and couldnt wonder off as the bus might not stop.

YANBU. Smokers have always been, in general, very selfish and not particularly sensitive to those around them who don't like the smoke.
It took laws to stop smoking indoors.
So, I'm not surprised when smokers from Western Europe revert to old habits when those laws are not in place.
They obviously don't care about their own health, why would they care about other people's?

I agree pluto

I agree with the OPs points....and i am hiding now

hysterical

Dont forget that mumsnet covers many religions, timezones and countries

I hope you had lovely day,

And i am on here as i am off to work in half an hour

I'm a heavy smoker and I agree that it's polite to go outside to smoke regardless of whether it's actually a law.
However I will smoke at an outside table of a bar/restaurant unless there are children at the next table.
If I piss off the nearby adults I think they can move whereas children have less choice.
But I wouldn't smoke indoors, it's different indoors.

And the people who work in the restaurant?

They have a right to work in an environment that will not cause them harm.

Are there actually any conclusive studies as to the effects of outdoor passive smoking, bearing in mind all the other pollutants already in the air. I imagine both Pro and Anti Smoking groups tend to seize on the findings from studies that support what they want to believe and promote, and not report any contradictory findings.

Outdoor passive smoking may not be a health concern, but it's akin to spitting in my food when I have to breath a sudden cloud of smoke.

Or imagine sitting to eat your lunch and having to breath exhaust fumes.

Or non-smokers are now to be confined indoors?

At best it's really annoying and inconsiderate of smokers. Even if allowed.

Breathe, not breath.

Aw if it goes until tomorrow my mumsnet Christmas is complete

Yes but where does it end? Should annoying/noisy adults or children be banned? What about people ordering smelly food?
Or horrible perfume? Or people with BO?

Should alcohol be banned because of the all the social problems it causes?
Should meat be banned because of the environmental costs of producing it?

It's slightly pathetic how smoking supporters ask for evidence.
The scientific evidence against smoking and passive smoking is overwhelming.
So now you want 'proof' about outdoor smoking.
Smoking harms and kills people, please don't quibble over the details. To their everlasting shame tobacco companies did this for years and are responsible for the death and ill health of many, many people.

The risk of harm to others must surely outweigh the convenience of smokers. Or do you not value the health of others?

Not 'proof' just reasonable and unbiased evidence that there is a significantly elevated health risk from outdoor passive smoking; evidence that has not been selectively chosen and filtered by the anti-smoking brigade while suppressing any contradictory studies.