Does everyone want to live in the US?

[AteRiri]

I was talking to an American friend and he made this blanket statement, "Everyone wants to come here!"

Is this true?

I suggest you have a closer look up-thread Angela and give that some thought, if you want to see why its relevant.

merrymouse I'm every bit as interested in fighting racism and racist practice, wherever it can be found as the next person. I hate it with a passion, white on black or black on white. So in order for me to fight it with you, please tell me of an example of 'institutional racism' or perhaps a law here or in the US that is racist in its intent?

I'm brown and go to the USA and Israel regularly for work. Haven't been stopped once by Israeli airport security. I have been stopped EVERY TIME by USA security. On the US side, because someone either assumes I'm a drug mule (was accused of this five times just in the past year because I dared to travel to New York on a 3 day trip with just hand luggage) or a terrorist. I have been strip searched & once was held in a locked room at JFK for four hours until my employer could verify my identity. I don't have a name that corresponds to a criminals, I usually travel Business or 1st Class, but I still get targeted in the USA.

Appreciate that they're trying to keep people safe but you can't do that by racial profiling. Israel doesn't!

institutional racism:

"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."

When Obama (55) was born it was still possible to receive a prison sentence in some states for marrying somebody of a different race.

Trump (70, 'settled' discrimination case in 1973) would like to appoint Jeff Sessions (also 70, apparently too racist to be a federal judge) as Attorney general.

Do you really think every institution and every American has moved on since the civil rights movement and institutional racism is no longer a problem?

Re racist laws, voter suppression:
www.aclu.org/issues/voting-rights/fighting-voter-suppression

(Sorry for thread derail - I don't think Trump represents most Americans and I obviously could have found examples of racism in the UK - it's just that they are particularly obvious in the US at the moment).

If I had the money to comfortably I would retire to California when I reach retirement age

Not to live in one of those op communities but I like the attitude of retirement is to be enjoyed obviously not all can afford to but there seems to be a more positive attitude towards enjoying yourself and being social when you have retired

I have thought about moving there at times (luckily can automatically gain a green card) we could have a nice life but it's a different life and when there for more that a month I get terribly homesick

Oh please is that the best you can do? Jim Crow laws of yesteryear & Sessions' appointment? (an individual who hasn't done anything racist just yet btw) this is the reasons that prove American institutions, in general, are just as racist now as they were in 1960?
The voter suppression trope has been debunked long ago as the nonsense it is . Look up Hughey Newsome's and project 21's work especially on this. Obama (Black President voted in twice) was accused of doing exactly the same in his first election in '96. Nullifying the votes of his primary opponents, but there were no howls of voter suppression then.
Again you seem to be asking: do I think there are any racists in the US today? I've already answered that.
There's no point in chanting slogans. Its like you asking me about wealth inequality or the top 1% and me saying that's the Bilderberg group or the 'Protocols of the elders of Zion' or some such other conspiracy theory. You'd say: hang on that's too vague. Please be more specific - so we can have a productive discussion?
History has been cruel to a lot of people. But don't use history as an excuse to encourage people to make bad decisions. Black people do not need you to do that.

There is voter suppression. For example some states don't allow you to vote if you have a criminal record, and as being black means that you are more likely to have one of these, and more likely to be convicted ( and recieve) a harsher sentence than a white person, then it suppresses the vote.

Even the racism that existed in 1960 still has reverberations that are felt in society today, the problems it caused will not go away over night, and to pretend that the US is not a society with inherent race issues is to be blind to the problem.

Look at the "birther" movement.

I lived in New York. Supposed to be an exciting city but I came home. Its not the place to bring up kids unless you are seriously rich and have a house in the country...and a nanny. This whole playdate thing was awful.
Guns, death penalty, crime, shit healthcare unless you have insurance, lack of workers rights and now Trump....would never want to live there.

Angela LIke I said upthread, don't take a few disparaging comments to heart here. Don't take it on here - it's really not worth your energies. This is a provocative, emotive and deeply troubling topic.

FWIW, I am white and grew up transatlantically and recognise the problem, it's not just POC who recognise the glaringly obvious issues. - most of my American friends recognise that the police force is institutionally racist.

As I said, there are a lot of good folks in the USA who are organising, responding, have solid funding and legal backing to respond to the expected increase in racist incidents with the election of Trump and his racist appointees.

Just look at the Katrina mess - The lives of those who are poor, who are vulnerable, and who are not white are not valued by the US government and it's no different in the police forces.

The voter suppression trope has been debunked long ago as the nonsense it is

No, it really hasn't.

The 'Jim Crow laws' of 'yesteryear' still affect the lives of people who grew up under them. You only need to be in your 50's or 60's to have experienced segregation - younger than Trump and many of the people he is appointing to office. It really wasn't that long ago and racism didn't magically finish in 1965.

I could carry on arguing with you, and for balance mention Stephen Lawrence but that isn't the point of this thread.

For some reason you seem to be heavily invested in claiming that everything is fine and that anybody who claims there is a problem must have some ulterior motive and nothing I can post will change that.

Your remark that it is more likely that somebody would be killed by a black person than the police is still completely irrelevant for all the reasons that have already been given.

For some reason you seem to be heavily invested in claiming that everything is fine and that anybody who claims there is a problem must have some ulterior motive and nothing I can post will change that.

I agree with this, merrymouse and do wonder why it is the case?

Do you think that patriotism is such a part of individual identity in the USA that people cannot criticise their own country for fear of threatening their own identity/sense of self?

I think that a majority of Americans are horrified by Trump's election, and the U.K. has Farage and Katie 'I didn't see the Nazi Twitter handle' Hopkins.

Simple solutions to complicated problems seem to be popular with a substantial chunk of people on both sides of the Atlantic.

Nope. A lovely country but work holiday allowance is appalling. What's the point living somewhere nice if you have to work all the time and cant enjoy it.

What's the point living somewhere nice if you have to work all the time and cant enjoy it.

There are actually quite a few of us Americans who manage to have a very good work-life balance even with fewer vacation days than Europeans get. Besides which, some of us even love our jobs.

I know plenty of people here who criticise the States for one reason or another.

Would people PLEASE quit with the ridiculous sweeping statements.

Makes you just as ignorant as who you think you're talking about.

Thank you LeadPipe, I do need reminding from time to time. It's so frustrating to see people point blank denying something that affects so many lives that I find it hard to ignore.

And to Tropezienne, I have in fact read the entire thread. Not that I needed to in order to know that a black person getting shot by another black person is not the same as being targeted by police officers who are paid and trained to protect. I'm sorry that you feel the need to justify the killings of black people by police officers though. I genuinely find it sad that you really think that's ok.

Jesus, Tropezienne got some anger issues going on there?

Sounds like you could do with a break from MN.

I'm glad I didn't see that message before it was deleted. It would have only made me more disgusted at the state of society - UK or US.

I know our family out in southern CA wouldn't trade their sun filled beach lifestyle for a few more vacation days in the UK. I believe DH got 21 days back in the US. Not terrible. Plus all the public holidays. It's the lifestyle making us going back. Outdoors, barbecues, beach.

Should also point out schemes at the office too including day care, football clubs and so many socials all in downtown SD. Absolutely superb lifestyle and great balance. I used to work 6 days a week repping in Italy. It was fantastic. What's the point having loads of time off if you can't afford to do anything fun with those days?!