Does everyone want to live in the US?

[AteRiri]

I was talking to an American friend and he made this blanket statement, "Everyone wants to come here!"

Is this true?

I've spent a lot of time in the US, I have a lot of US friends and family. During my 20s I was desperate to live there - but fell in love with, and married, a man who didn't want to leave the Uk, so we didn't. My America-by-birth family members all choose to live in the U.K. as adults and are raising their own children either here or in mainland Europe. My English friends who moved to the US did so for work and yes, do have a fabulous, white privileged lifestyle that they wouldn't have here.

The older I get the less attractive the US becomes, there is a particular brand of anti intellectualism there that I couldn't stomach. I love the hope and optimism of most of the Americans I know - but the dark side of the US is very dark. I've travelled round the US on a shoe string, using greyhound buses, you get a very different sense of the country when you travel with people who can't afford to fly, own a car, or stay in posh hotels.

And yes, there are other countries I would move to, both in Europe and outside it. If my circumstances changed I believe I could live in Canada, New Zealand, France, Italy, Holland, Sweden... I used to think Australia, but its dark side re race seems to be getting darker. I've watched my dsis get more and more racist the longer she's lived there - listening to her and her friend's views on immigration and aboriginal people was pretty horrifying for me .

The sad thing is that America could be the greatest country on earth - if its citizens chose to represent the values that led to its foundation.

I've never had a desire to live there.

Particularly offputting are the gun laws and the massive discrepancy between states in laws/sentencing etc. Some of the states have absolute draconian laws (IMO) and horrifically harsh punishments. I know you get miscarriages of justice everywhere but some of the cases i've read about where longer sentences get doled out in the US make me shudder.

I'd move to San Francisco in a heartbeat. Nowhere else though. And I've travelled the States extensively

Have lived there quite happy to be back in U.K. (But my brother still lives here)

Grew up in Canada, always thought the US was slightly off. My family and I moved to Qatar and I've lived in 3 other (non European) countries. My parents bought a place in Florida 5 years ago and despite the fact it's a "good neighbourhood" since Trump has been elected (hell really since he won the republican vote) they say the amount of gunshots they hear every night and the racist/homophobic shit that comes out of their neighbours mouths, means they are looking to leave and quick!

I think Northern California, including San Francisco are spectacularly pretty and the people nice, but a bit too nice to my mind. I prefer the harder edge of New York.

There are those who would argue (including some Californians...) that California is not part of the US, or at least shouldn't be, which is why I think Northern California up to Washington State seems more palatable to many non-Americans. They are not very clichéd American IME.

[[http://www.yescalifornia.org Calexit 2019]

I don't know whether I am or about that...

Clicky link

As a black person I would say not

Tbh I am very worried about even going there on Hoilday lest I end up shot dead by the police they are so bloody trigger happy

Yes, we talk about it.have looked into work visa,places to live.would easily get employment
But the logistics of uprooting put us off.
If someone walked me through negotiating schools,accomodation,etc yes we'd go

Pacific - Yes. But aligning themselves with Brexit is not a good thing. But yes, all those reasons are what I like about California.

Really? You are aware that in the past 75 years at least, virtually every big movement in art, cinema and television as well as many of the biggest names in pop music, fashion, journalism and literature have been American?

Some would say that American cinema, television and music are the worst (primarily commercially driven) exports that America has to offer!

We rarely watch television and certainly don't watch American movies. They are not the heart of global civilised culture and it's quite sad that you think this. This type of statement is precisely what alienates people towards Americans.

As for American journalism hahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

The dismissal of the culture thing is incorrect.

Although the US has produced some bad TV etc I don't think you can say that The Wire, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, GOT etc etc etc are trash. Yu say you rarely watch TV but felt free to comment? What informs your position?

Music: Rock and Roll, blues, jazz, R and B, disco, punk, ( yes the ramones is the first punk record) funk, hip hop etc all began in the states.

Jackson Pollock, Andy Warhol etc etc

Movies, I'm not even going to list all the great American movies.

"They are not the heart of global civilised culture and it's quite sad that you think this. This type of statement is precisely what alienates people towards Americans"

Again you say that you don't watch American movies, but felt the need to make a statement that was blatantly inaccurate, and shows your own lack of knowledge, understanding and culture.

Journalism? The US has had some great examples of high quality journalism. Woodward and Bernstein anyone?

Displaying ignorance whilst trying to be pretentious is exactly why your post is a load of rubbish.

The dismissal of the culture thing is incorrect.

I think you mean that we have different opinions on the matter neither of which can be proven as they are entirely subjective.

"I think you mean that we have different opinions on the matter neither of which can be proven as they are entirely subjective."

No you have suggested that you have opinions about something you don't actually know anything about. Ignorant.

No, Americans are far far too chirpy

Seriously though, want to continue to travel there as there are amazing places and people to see but could never live there as ai wouldn't feel

A - safe sending the kids to school
B - totally confident my Muslim DH wouldn't get us all carted off to an internment camp -not sure that won't happen here either--

If I were to choose any where it would be New Zealand.

Anyway aren't most Brits convinced everyone wants to come here??

I moved to the US 7 years ago with my DH and DS and I am very happy here. It's not perfect and there are things I would change, but I am far happier here than I ever was in the U.K.

• People are far more community minded and do so much more to support their local communities and schools. There are plenty of opportunities to volunteer and support local activities and groups. My son and I worked in a food pantry a few times before Christmas, and he has a volunteer role at the local library. In fact he will need to log a certain amount of volunteer hours before he can graduate from middle school or high school.

• our neighbors go out of their way to check up on you and make sure everything is ok, and help each other out. For example a tree came down across the road in our neighborhood one Saturday morning recently, and within an hour we had all worked together to chop it up and clear the road for traffic. The local cop came to manage traffic and joined in. In the U.K., people would have tutted in disapproval and ignored it - and yes, I am a Brit and lived there for years, and visit very regularly.

• childbirth can be medicalized, as much as in the NHS, but we also have midwife led units and more doulas per square mile in my county than probably in the whole of the UK ( ok - I exaggerate, but they all appear on our local Facebook groups constantly, and there are so many options).

• my 11 year old son walks to school, along purpose built paths that crisscross our neighborhood, and we walk, run and cycle in the area all the time, as does everybody else. In fact you cannot go for a walk without meeting friendly dog walkers or people out for an evening stroll.

• my son was recently diagnosed on the autism spectrum, very high functioning, but still a very difficult time for us. His school has been amazing - so supportive and so ready to put various solutions in place. His teachers have gone out of their way to work with him - giving up their lunch hours for example, to give him extra tuition. We have a dedicated case worker in the school, and daily access to his dean and counselor, as well as a direct line to the vice principal at any time. Yes, this is a local county school, not a private school.

• I have 25 days vacation, as well as public holidays, and 2 days personal holidays ( to use for appointments, etc...), as well as time off for doctor appointments, etc... Same for my colleagues.

• my son's school has kids from about 30 different countries in it - so much so that they have an international night every year with food, music, stories etc from all the countries. Families set up booths to share their cultures and we all walk round with "passports" and get them stamped at the various booths.

I love how positive Americans are - the enthusiasm and welcome just makes me feel so much better about things here.

What do I miss from the UK?

• the right to roam - Americans have really made a mistake there, but at least they create and protect beautiful parks all over the place. But still not the same...
• proper pubs

What do I not miss?

• having to navigate between the pools of vomit in the street on Sunday mornings when you go into town
• the general moaning, negativity and tendency to put down people, things, places... so depressing and commonplace

And by the way, I saw plenty of guns when I lived in London. Have you been to Willesden or Brixton? The criminals used to shoot in the cemetery at Dollis Hill at night when they were testing their guns and selling them on.

I am nervous about Trump, come 21 January, but I have also educated myself enough about the political system to know that the President is not all powerful, and the government has plenty of checks and balances built into the system. Plenty of people I know voted against him - and plenty are taking their vows to make this country better very seriously. More young people are volunteering in politics and in their communities to try and ensure that the negative Trump-effect does not win. So we shall see... but so many countries around the world are facing political uncertainties right now, it seems to be a trend rather than unique.

And when I say "have a good day!" , I actually do mean it, and so do most people you meet. Maybe not everybody, but I'll take it.

Uurghh - did not mean to rant for so long, but it upsets me to see the small minded thinking here. I have lived in the U.K., in Africa, in Italy and in Switzerland. All have good and bad points, like anywhere, but the US bashing is just so sad.

Yes I do. But only if I were rich. New England is on my bucket list and Jackson Hole in Wyoming. I do love England though.

Great post spamm. I've been to the US lots of times and I love the friendliness and sense of community there. People show respect for each other - something which I see less and less here in the UK.

So nice to read your post Spamm. I am an American living in England; I love both countries, and feel sad about the venom against America and Americans on Mumsnet. Thanks for the kind words.

Would you be willing to say where you live? It sounds great! After 20 years in the UK we are thinking of living in the US again, so looking at different options, but wanting to find somewhere liberal with a real sense of community.

I would have replied, "No, that's CANADA. Everyone wants to live in Canada."

In my case it's true, and I know several Americans who think that Canada is some kind of subordinate backwater stuck on top of the US so it would shut up their arrogant chops.

Both have space, opportunities and a better standard of living.
But Canada has a progressive government, Trudeau instead of Trump, stricter gun laws and doesn't take itself too seriously.

We're watching to see how Brexit pans out, while toying with emigrating before 2020.

Leaving the UK to go back to the States today and was feeling sad until I read this thread more and some of the shockingly ignorant and incorrect comments.