Does everyone want to live in the US?

[AteRiri]

I was talking to an American friend and he made this blanket statement, "Everyone wants to come here!"

Is this true?

And to those who take offence when others say they don't want to live in the US and then gives reasons that are true or have a semblance of truth (no national healthcare, gun control problem, etc), maybe you could ask yourselves why you find other people's choices hard to believe.

And no, "they can't live in the US anyway, ergo they don't want to live here" does not hold water, considering the valid reasons people have stated.

This thread has opened my eyes to how people see my country, and how much of it is based on myths and misunderstandings.

(To note, I never assumed everyone wanted to come here or anything. I just had no idea how much vitriol the UK had towards us.)

Santa sad to say there is indeed much negativity towards the US in the UK and a lot of it based on perceptions people develop of the media- I have all my life heard jokes about dumb Americans. Even after 9/11 my boss made a very crass joke about that event. The UK is a very insular country and I realise that more, the more time I am away. Hopefully you will find the Brits you meet in the US are not in that group and appreciate the many good things the country offers- its people I have found mainly to be some of the most generous and hospitable and positive people I have had the luck to know. But as you say a lot is based on limited experience and a very strong sense of how great the Uk is.Just like here people are very wary of the NHS- the NHS in principle is a good thing but go and try and get care and then you will find that in practice it is crumbling and the care I got compared to care in the US was abysmal. Obamacare has done a lot to help poorer people get the care they deserve and we shall see how long the NHS lasts with the overcrowded conditions in the UK, putting such a strain on the system.

Have only visited the US once. Went to Memphis for work, about a week after Hurricane Katrina, work trip had been meant to include New Orleans too. Saw the sheer number of Katrina refugees sleeping rough in a city center park/garden square. One surrounded by largely empty luxury high rise hotels.

That did put me off ever going back to be honest. It's not the only wealthy country in the world with a homelessness problem to be fair. There were a lot of homeless people in Madrid after the crisis. But at least there you saw non-homeless people talking to the homeless people as fellow human beings. What really struck me about Memphis was how totally ignored the homeless people were.

Don't be unfair on the UK. It's not only people from the UK who wouldn't want to live in the US. :)

I don't think most Europeans would particularly want to. They might live there, but between their own countries or almost any other country in Europe and the US, we'd probably not choose the US.

It should probably open the eyes of those from the US, but it's funny that you conclude it's vitriol in relation to the US.
Simply accept that you're not as great as you think. :)
(Ok some pp have been quite forceful, but that's always the case in MN)

The European NHSs may have their problems, but people in Europe also get private insurance and medical care.
The difference is that, for most, everyone can access health care, and at an affordable cost for the country.
It's not a myth that healthcare in the US is disproportionately expensive. Crime statistics are not a myth. Homelessness is not a myth. Institutionalised racism is not a myth. Poorer education is not a myth. The death penalty is not a myth. Nor is the car culture.

There are great things about the US and great people. But I'd still keep to Europe, even though we do have problems too.

So bizarre. No, I don't want to live in the US. I have relatives and plenty of friends who live/have lived in the US and I have US friends who very happily live in Europe. The US is not some kind of nirvana - not at all. I actually don't like going there much.

No chance even if they paid me

Ridiculous. Definitely not. I have been and I have seen. Land of the free my arse. Have you seen the cops out there? Have you seen the levels of poverty (3rd world type poverty in some places)? A society that doesn't care for all and only wants to know you if your successfull. There are parts were people live in total ignorance of the planet they live in. Although not a bad place to live by global standards it is years behind in terms of freedom, liberty and a fair society for all than the UK and western Europe. I don't see that getting any better under a Trump administration. Even under Obama the status quo was pretty much maintained.

My time in the forces I have met many Americans. All of them very warm and friendly. Lovely people. Scary when talking to them though their attitudes on certain issues and their understanding of other people around the world (or lack of). Especially when you are in places like Afghanistan where a lack of understanding of the situation and complexities of its people and mindset is a dangerous disadvantaged.

I did at one point, the my oh visited for work. He's the boss of his own company, but he said everywhere he went he got treated like the man servant to his colleagues (he is brown, they are not). Not that he should be treated like 'the boss', but just equally. Changed my view completely.

It's not a myth that healthcare in the US is disproportionately expensive.

Yes. Take asthma for example. Albuterol, one of the oldest asthma medicines, typically costs $50 to $100 per inhaler in the United States.

In the Uk where it is called ventolin the list price for a 200 dose inhaler: Evohaler salbutamol (as sulfate) 100 micrograms/metered inhalation, net price 200-dose unit = £1.50.

Expensive doesnt mean better quality. You're being ripped off in the USA just because.

Wow! Shocking. UK is the best place for balance, opportunity, social mobility, social protection and people and not being ripped off.
I noticed that the poorest least educated most socially and economically 'cornered' people in the usa still believe that the usa is great. In my country there is no reverance for TDs from the poor/trapped/marginalised. TDs are all cute hoors here.

The UK has rather low social mobility too.

I know it is harder. I would have been in dire straits in the uk as a single parent if i hadnt returned to family in ireland but at least in uk/ireland a university education doesnt cost 80 thousand dollars. My friend tells me she needs that much. Not sure if that is because they earn too much to qualify for any help.

University education in America can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. The expectations are different in that students are expected to work and study at the same time. Plenty of part time nannies in my town are studying their masters and do so around their hours of work.

DHs employer has just put three kids through private college which cost $750k. They could have gone to schools that offered them scholarships or done two years of community college before transferring to a college to complete their bachelor degree. Community college in NJ is about $4,500 a year so $9k over your first two years and the last two years of college at a private school in NJ is $30-60k depending where you go. Classes at non Ivy League schools are arranged so you can easily work FT. Most students who I work with are making $35-40k a year while they study. Once they graduate they make $60k. This is very average in our area.

The issue comes in when you live in an area with high unemployment or where your parents are in their final years of working just before retirement and living in a house with lots of equity.

"Most students who I work with are making $35-40k a year while they study."

I certainly never met university students making that amount of money so I think you may be talking about the exception here.

Also there is a lot of derision in the states about "community college" degrees and they aren't valued as highly as ones from Ivy League or big State Universities.

Yes i remember big joke on big bang was penny going to community college. But i get that some degrees are more prestigious than others of course, no way around that!

darth That would be because you can only graduate from community college with an associates degree. After finishing you go to college for two years and graduate with a bachelor. Your resume just shows where you graduated from. Very easy to 'hide' that you went to community college. In NJ they are very strict that credits earned at community college are accepted at all colleges that accept transfers. The only college that currently does not accept transfers is Princeton. Bergen community college has programs with NYU where 100% of credits are accepted. There are plans for a similar program with Columbia and for the NYU program to be expanded across the state.

You wouldn't make it in my profession in the states with a community college degree, you might do if you can get into Colombia with an associates, however if I was a Colombia student I'd be annoyed because the high standards that you need to get in at 18 are lowered.

Community college is not inferior where we live. It's used as a pathway to college for those with limited finances or a poor start to their life. We also have Rutgers in NJ which is a fantastic state college. TCNJ is also excellent. Both are very accepting of students from community college and require high GPAs to gain acceptance. Both state colleges are 'affordable' in that scholarships are awarded based on your parental income/assets. You can go a very long way with a bachelor degree from either school.

I like that schools here have blind admissions. They look at your academics and accept/reject based on that. Only after that decision is made do they look at your ability to pay.

Also lots of colleges allow transfers. Obama transferred from a lesser college for his bachelors.

I know several people who started off at community college, and then transferred to Penn or Cornell to complete their degree.

As for the food in America being atrocious, there are two sides to the coin: fast food or the most amazing health food. Juice bars are everywhere, Paleo-eateries etc. Admittedly this is in CT and I also lived in Manhattan, but you can't move in Vermont for organic, farm-to-table fare. Whereas I find the food in England so carb heavy and rich.

I know Rutgers very well.

Universities in the UK have blind admissions too regarding academic ability.

Your Obama point isn't quite accurate, he wasn't at a community college but a well respected Liberal Arts college in LA.

As much as you protest Want2b, the USA is still the developed country with the least amount of social mobility.

I totally agree about the food.

I would give my eye teeth to find a chinese place selling General Tso's chicken.

But where I live there's no need for that juggling between lesser colleges and scholarships or anything.

State universities have very good reputations. They offer places blindly based on a national system that takes grades into account. And fees are still relatively low.

Sure, we all pay with our taxes, in the end, but the system is fairer for those who have the capacity but may not have the funds. There are also grants for those in lower incomes to help with books and living costs, anyway.

So, sure the US system is workable, but there are better systems elsewhere.