Does everyone want to live in the US?

[AteRiri]

I was talking to an American friend and he made this blanket statement, "Everyone wants to come here!"

Is this true?

Oh and in NYC call 311 if any issues. They do help you.

darth you worked out of NYC and I assume you were on an intercompany transfer?

Never, though I enjoy visiting.

I was offered a job by the CEO of a firm after some work I had done for my London based one with his company,.

After 10 years I moved with my OH to Newaygo, Michigan for a few years so I do know different sides to the states.

I think they do have a very different culture - you either like it or not. We are after all separated by a not so common language!

Angela you are right about institutionalised police racism in the USA. Most of my American friends recognise it as a problem and it is far worse since the rise of Trump. You are fighting a losing battle here - it's an inconvenient truth for many.

There was a time when America was great, when the blue collar workers had as much social mobility as the white collar workers - they were matched in social mobility -that is an absolutely incredible accomplishment and it was indeed a golden era but it over and no longer true in any shape. Sadly many Americans still believe it to be true when it isn't.

As said upthread, America has the lowest social mobility of the the developed world. and I think the current generation is the first to be actually worse off than their parents in terms of social mobility.

And I you think the old boys network or cronyism aren't alive and well in America you are delusional. An Ivy League degree and / the right sorority will open doors and pave the way.

As I said, all you have to do is look who was just elected to the top job in the country, you can't tell me that Trump would be there if he had started from the bottom or even the middle.

And for police corruption- I've been poorly so have watched a few movies recently - Precint Seven Five about the empire built by corrupt NYC police in the late 80's early 90's. Holy hell. It's mind blowing the levels of institutionalised corruption.

Would I live there? No.

I can only go by what I've seen on my limited experience.

The insularity, the wilful ignorance of the world in general, the "we're the best" brainwashing, the frightening cost of healthcare insurance (asthmatic amongst other things), the weird government system where different states seem to be different countries, the weird politics I can't get my head round (Donald Trump is President-Elect even though he didn't win the popular vote? His opponent was Hillary? WTF was that about?), the guns, the appalling religious right, the extremely divisive rhetoric allowed to stand in the name of "free speech" and the "if you're poor, you're on your own" mentality. If you're unemployed, God help you.

Would I visit? Yes. I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise. I've been only a couple of times once, during a summer when I was a student working in summer camps and twice as a tourist and only to tourist-y areas.

Florida was an eye opener. I can't drive and took buses everywhere.

One bus would stop at Universal Studios. At the staff entrance. I used to have to walk around to the front to get in.

'Coz poor people ride buses and everyone else has a car.

It was a hard, 'never mind the quality, feel the width', dog eat dog world which we are beginning to see more of here.

We are copying the worst and I hate it.

LeadPipe

You are fighting a losing battle here - it's an inconvenient truth for many.

I know, I always fall into this trap! It just makes me so upset realising that people's actual, quite horrific, experiences are dismissed so easily by those who will never face such things.

Id like to live in New York for a bit I think but I'm too old now. In my 20s would have been fun.

But their chocolate sucks and they have the trump now.

LeadPipe. What about the grand scale of the systemic corruption of the West Midlands Police and the Metropolitan Police.

We're not squeaky clean there, you know?

Gingernaut - when it comes to how individual votes actually count in an election the UK and US systems are very similar: 1 vote does not equal 1 vote because it all depends on which county/state you live in.

It's also painful and frightening for people to recognise and acknowledge that those who are there to "protect and to serve" are using their power to oppress and kill. It's a deeply disturbing truth. I find it truly overwhelming at times when I see the dark underbelly like that Fort Worth video. That offficer was acting with clarity and sureity, he has backing for his behaviour, he isn't a lone racist. No officer would flaunt the law in such an aggregious manner unless he had the confidence of backing.

It's terrifying. Yet people deny it as a "one off" or a misunderstanding. I was glad to see that the counter forces that have organised and mobilised with the election of Trump to fight the waves of racism were there, straight away to provide legal protection and due process for the mother and child who were arrested and to make sure that no further harm was perpetrated upon them.

I am glad to see organised, funded, immediate, and effective action being taken. Don't be discouraged. There are a lot of good people in the USA and they are joining up.

My post of 14:47 was to angela

No officer would flaunt the law in such an aggregious manner unless he had the confidence of backing. It's terrifying. Yet people deny it as a "one off" or a misunderstanding.

Exactly this.

It is certainly not a one off, Lead.

I will say this as a White British: my experience with the USA police was very mixed ranging from extremely lenient to ridiculously paranoid/aggressive. In the 30 years I've lived in the UK as poised to the 6 I lived in the USA I'd find that the UK police force are far more balanced in their aporoach towards their employers.

Florida was an eye opener. I can't drive and took buses everywhere.
One bus would stop at Universal Studios.

I hope you aren't committing the near universal MN fallacy of equating Florida with Disney/Universal. There is much more to my state, including a rich historical and cultural heritage, than theme parks.

As to the buses, I think it's quite well known that we are nation of cars and that it can be difficult to get around without one. Having said that, the bus service in my city is good, and I use it from time to time.

Well I'm technically Hispanic but consider myself white. I've been arrested by American police. I was hauled out of my car, put in handcuffs and thrown in the back of a police cruiser. We're the police correct, yes, did they have to treat me this way no but you are in a country where people have guns illegally. I don't agree but I understand why it happens. As to interactions with the police I always find it patronizing when black people talk about them having conversations with their kids about how they should be interacting with the police. FFS I'm having that conversation with my kids who are 5 and 3. When the baby is old enough she will also be subject to the same conversation. You shouldn't start having that conversation when kids are teens. I think the biggest issue in the US is the lack of good education in poorer areas. I've seen it with my own eyes and I feel so sorry for those kids because while they might want to get ahead they don't have a hope in hell with a limited education.

darth I came over at 25 and I've build my career in the US. It's much harder for me to build it in the US compared to the U.K. where I have a wonderful network to help me. In the US I've had to go out and cultivate my own network. It's been challenging but I'm glad we have done it. I think coming in at a high level or coming in on a transfer is a whole different ball game. You just are not as exposed as you are when trying to make it up to the higher levels.

The best thing we did was start our own business. We are looking at starting a second business. Locally there is no indoor play open for children in the 5-12 range and there is a distinct lack of options for after school activities for those 12-18. Not everyone has a parent at home and expecting a teen to take care of themselves is a bit unrealistic. They need help with homework, social issues and general guidance. We are looking at what we can do as a charitable endeavor for the high school kids while opening a bigger kid soft play. Career wise I'll always have a job because I never want my family to be without the benefits that come with that.

What about the grand scale of the systemic corruption of the West Midlands Police and the Metropolitan Police.

I agree entirely ginger although I have to confess to mostly ignorance as far as this concerned, to my shame. But you have spurned me into looking into it more here in the U.K. and I will do so with interest.

However, the USA is a special case for reasons as I said in my post yesterday 19:27

Sorry Want2b, social mobility in the US is lower than it is the UK, Its harder to get to the top if you didn't start there.

I started from the very bottom in the UK and have made it good on both sides of the Atlantic. I dealt with a lot of people in the states who came from money and have remained at the top.

You are the exception to the rule, and maybe have a bit of what is called survivor bias.

But well done all the same!

want2b do be careful when making statements like "I will always have a job" you might until some sudden illness or an accident removes that.

Neither in the UK nor in Portugal has ever crossed my mind to teach my son how to deal with the police either than tell him to go to them if he needed help.
We're white, but still...

I think the lack of support network is true of any country, or city, when you move from elsewhere. It's not a class thing or a specific country issue.
I know a few people who've moved to the US or worked there for a while, and it's been fine for them. But it's mostly people in science, postgraduate or post-docs.

Someone said they did well because they took risks and invested it all. What would have happened if it hadn't worked out?

I did educate my children about interacting with the police and we are white. I am very aware that my African American friends and colleagues needed to focus a lot more energy on that than I did.

I am very careful myself when stopped by police. Much of it has to do with guns. It might surprise many to know that a lot of the proponents for more gun control in the US are police. In parts of some states, it's certainly possible that every Tom, Dick, and Harriet might be armed and the police might mistake you reaching for your driver's license for reaching for a gun.

If I wanted to emigrate anywhere it would have to be Sweden such an amazing peaceful country