Another mil one, sorry!

[HeSaysRhiannonDontGo]

Dh's mum lives about an hours drive away from us. We visit her every second weekend. I like her, she can be annoying at times, but so can I!
Ds is almost two and at the horrible tantruming stage. He's very active and loves running about and exploring things (like most toddlers I'm sure)
However mil always wants ds to go sit on her knee, give her cuddles etc and he ends up screaming to get down, she tries to hold onto him and the result is a full on screaming match which I am left to deal with.
She also tells him not to touch every single thing he touches. She never moves anything special or expensive out of his reach before we arrive, despite me saying that he grabs everything so best to move anything precious. Every two seconds it's "no, don't touch ds, no don't touch that." Her house is so small and he is told not to touch anything, he ends up bored and frustrated, then when the inevitable
Crying starts she says he is getting to be a right moaner. Drives me mad!
He is only like this at hers, at my parents they just let him get on and have fun, anything that can break or is dangerous is moved up high and then they don't have to keep saying no don't touch to him. He is so happy at my parents and loves staying there. Mil wants him to start staying at hers in the new year, she has never asked before. Wibu to say no, given everything that I have explained. Ds will be bored, and then I will have to hear how he moaned all night and is so whingey
Etc etc. She also smokes in the house, around ds. I take him outside or upstairs but I know if he was alone with her she would just light up in front of him.
So as not to drip feed, ds is very wary of mil, my parents live next to us so he knows them really well and
always runs to them for cuddles. Mil
is jealous of their close relationship and I do understand that it must suck but not anything I can do if he doesn't want to hug and kiss her, I'm not going to force him!
Dh agrees with me but obviously feels guilty about saying no to her request to have to stay, but what else can we say??

There is a middle way btn letting kids do anything they want and child proofing everywhere, and constantly telling him not to touch.

Basically though, your MILs house is neither safe nor welcoming for a small child.

Unless this changes, contact with her needs to be somewhere else 'to save her the bother of worrying about him breaking things, and so he doesn't breathe in the toxic chemicals permeating the house from her cigarettes'. Win win.

I think a lot of learning is done via touch. Exploring how doors and drawers and cupboards open and close is fun.

Yes, it's useful to teach children that somethings are special. 'Don't touch Grandma's special crystal glass bowl because glass breaks if it falls down.' 'Don't touch the oven because it's hot.'

But the 'no touching' rule doesn't appear to apply to the grandmother. She is entitled to touch and hold an unwilling child. So she gets to own not just her own house but her grandchild too. While he doesn't own anything at all and is a prisoner/captive for the duration of the stay.

OP you need to not compare what " your" parents does vs what mil does.

Children can learn that different places means different rules.

I didnt move much for my children when they were small (we kept hot drinks up high and ensured they could not get into knifes) However I was adamant they would know not to touch precious things and it worked.

My friends didnt do so and it did result in issues when their toddlers came to visit where the toddler height had been swept clean. However they did learn and didnt touch in our house close friend told me her toddler ds had said " no touchy Enkops house" He came to ours a lot and just accepted this was the status quo.

Mil doesn't like touching of her things like that and that is ok. Your parents are ok with it that is ok too. Your ds will adapt. Bring toys to distract him with try to find some he could " play" with MIL with (is he into cars for example?

DO support ds in not being forced to giving affection when he is not ok with it. (that I would stand very firm on)

Wonder he has a fascination with doors, loves opening and shutting doors for people lol

Personally I'd just go in and cheerfully remove breakables to a safe place myself saying, "Is it ok to put these things here? I'd hate him to break them and I don't want to spend the visit on tenterhooks so I'd prefer to just move them out of the way for now." In fact I have done this and in my experience the house owner is thankful that I respect their belongings enough to bother.

I think you're being a bit unreasonable about letting him nosey around the cupboards and so on. Your parents might be fine with it but I can imagine why someone wouldn't want to encourage him to do it too. It's basic manners not to poke around someone else's house, even if you're two. If she doesn't like it, you should accept that as her preference and not take it personally.

I feel a bit sorry for her as it is abundantly clear that she is second choice as so often happens to the mils of dils. Yes yes...your parents are wonderful and she doesn't measure up. Sucks for her. Be kind.

The whole forced affection thing I struggle with, really don't want to make a big deal out of granny getting a kiss goodbye but he hates it! What would people suggest for this issue? And not just with mil with anybody who wants a kiss/cuddle etc if he doesn't want to.

Does she play with him, or interact with him at all?
My parents live near us and do childcare one day a week, while MIL lives 90 minutes away so sees them less often.
However, she does have toys and colouring things at her house, and reads to them, colours with them etc (and is happy to listen to endless chatter about their favourite TV prgrammes etc).
It is a different relationship to the one my parents have with them but no less special.
can you bring some toys or something with you, and encourage them to spend time actually doing something with your son. Just sitting around while your son wanders around, touching stuff he's not supposed to isn't fun for anyone.
if he gets lots of toys for Christmas or birthdays could you leave some at hers?
Although the smoking would be a dealbreaker in terms of him staying over, it does seem that she wants a relationship with him but is not quite sure how to go about it.

I agree that exploring is really important for young children, but so is setting boundaries.

It sounds like the child is allowed to run riots everywhere, so it's a bit of shock when he is in a normal house where children are taught to respect other people property and to behave.

is a prisoner/captive for the duration of the stay. over reaction anyone?

When you visit someone with a toddler, you normally take at least a bag of stuff to occupy them, so they don't need to be a nuisance for your hosts. It's perfectly fine to tell a child not to touch anything, they are clever little things, they do understand. How else can you take them with you for doctor or dentist appointments?

It's not rocket science to ask the grand mother to keep a cupboard for him, so he can empty the stack of tupperware/ clothes pegs and similar.

It sounds like the OP has decided not to make any effort at all. If her MIL doesn't stop smoking in front of the child, I wouldn't go that often to be fair.

So basically she treats him like a doll?

I would say no.

It sounds like he's not allowed to touch anything at all. She just wants him to sit on her knee for a cuddle. Few toddlers are happy with that for more than a couple of minutes. It's all well saying discipline your child but saying no constantly makes it meaningless to them, and if you are desperate for a family member to visit regularly then you need to make them welcome.

For overnight stays - just say "no, he's too little" (could you make up a story about how he's awful at sleeping through the night at the moment & the only thing that calms him down is running around, getting all the knick knacks down and opening up all the cereal cupboards? ).

I understand about children not being allowed to do whatever they want in someone else's home, but what about grown adults realising that children are not play things? He doesn't want to sit still and have cuddles for hours & forcing him to do that causes tantrums down for the OP to deal with. Sure, kids have to learn they can't do whatever they want but it sounds like your MIL could use a refresher course in that herself.
That said, could you bring some toys for him to play with so she can see how much calmer he is if he's allowed a little bit of space to play with his cars etc.

OP, re kisses, I would let her have a quick cuddle to say hello and goodbye, but I normally just take my kid back and say "Oh no, he doesn't like kisses".
On that point, I don't mind being rude, because I believe personal space is very important.

I think there is a balance and at 2 he is learning and will learn not to touch. When mine were little we did the 'don't touch' etc and its level depended on whose house we were in and their rules. However those houses where they moved the breakable items were much nicer to visit (both GPS did this to different extents) so we went more often. It's sounds like your MILs house goes too much one way which is fine for one off visits but not very welcoming if you go loads and it's the only time your MIL sees him.

Re sitting on lap try talking about how active he is and how is developing learning to run, climb etc and isn't this great.. She may need to understand that he is changing and doesn't just sit there like a baby would.

Smoking is a flat no for staying over. It doesn't sound as though he needs are being considered.

My PILs were like this. "Don't touch that, keep away from those, put that down, sit still, be quiet, in our day children were seen and not heard, come to me for a cuddle" you get the picture.

They admit themselves that their house is not child-friendly and visits by grandchildren (and now great-grandchildren) are fraught and stressful.

Wrt kisses, teach him high fiving, or ask him to wave, to say Bye bye, to blow kisses - & give him the choice what to do. It's no more ok to participate in coercing your child to kiss someone they don't want to at the end of a visit than at any other time.

Be relaxed and cheerful about it and kiss mil yourself and your son will more likely grow to want to do that too.

I'm not beige until biased when I say he definitely isn't running riot just likes looking about. He is normally so good natured and when he gets told no in our house he understands, but at his grans it frustrates him, probably because he doesn't understand why he is constantly getting told no when he is doing something that most people wouldn't have an issue with

His curiosity is normal and he shouldn't be told 'no' all the time.

She shouldn't be holding on to him until he screams and there's no way I would leave him with someone likely to smoke around him.

I would also cut out visiting every other weekend as it's too stressful.

Smoking: Ask your DH to have a serious but tactful conversation about the fact that she smokes in the house whilst your DS is there. He should explain that it is putting the both of you off staying in the house for long periods and that you would otherwise love to. Ask that she lights up outside just whilst you are visiting. If she does not agree to this - tell her that you will only be able to visit for short periods (e.g. an hour at her house) or see her somewhere else instead (your house).

I would try my best to keep visiting your MIL at her house if possible. Despite how you feel about your MIL, she is your DS's granny and it's important he has a relationship with her.

Touching everything: It sounds like she has either forgotten what it was like to have children around, or has an intolerant/stress-head edge to her approach to child-rearing. My Dad is exactly the same. Whenever we visit I am on tenter-hooks beause he gets wound up by the kids and doesn't like touching, noise, etc. I think she should put delicates away when you visit. Every child is different - some are 'into' everything and others would not even bother trying to touch stuff. You have to 'prepare' for and accommodate every child's personality IMO.

It's stressful and inconvenient for you, but if your requests to move delicate ornaments has been ignored, I'm afraid there is little you can do but grin and bear it. There are often things you have to put up with when visiting people. My MIL insists on keeping the cat in the house even though my daughter is allergic and I have a tiny baby. She ignores any requests that he's kept outside whilst we visit.

But he's doing all that because he's bored. Why aren't you bring toys, suggesting walks or outings?
You've had some very good advice here and you and your dh need to take charge of the situation.

I don't think he should be looking in cupboards or things like that - but "No DS, why don't we play with these lovely bricks instead" would be better than "no".

Smoking is a deal breaker for me.

Meet up out or not at all.

We do bring toys, and he does play for a bit. But the house is so small and cramped it's difficult for him to do anything. And she has no garden so we can't really take him out. She isn't well so she won't go a walk or out anywhere, her house is literally the only place we can see her

It does sound like hard work. I do sympathise.

Sounds typical behaviour to me. My son was obsessed with doors and drawers and opening tins and pressing buttons. He is slowly growing out of it at 4 but the 11 month old is now obsessed with opening drawers and doors .... 🙄

I really think you just need to be assertive. No to overnight stays because no is s complete answer and you are the parent. Visits are to kept short and sweet due to the smoking and the child having pretty much nothing to do there accept caus mischief.

I suspect me and my MIL would have come to blows if we had met when she was a younger woman as she just lets my toddler trash her house and eat chocolate and pop all day long and tries to stop me from giving him any boundaries at all. I let DP take him alone and I just deal with the aftermath when he comes home on a sugar high. The baby stats with me though and there is no way either of them would stay overnight unless it was a total emergency.

Can you take or ideally leave some toys at MILs so he gets excited to play with things there? This would allow MIL to play and interact with him which hopefully they would both enjoy as opposed to forced cuddles.

I do think children need to be taught boundaries so it makes sense she doesn't fully baby proof her house before visits from you all and hopefully as your DC learns boundaries this will be less of an issue.

Personally I wouldn't leave DC with anyone you think will smoke in his presence. I don't like smoking and don't let anyone smoke in our home (that was the case before my DC too). DH and I do have people close to us that smoke but they never do it around children so I trust them to babysit my DC as I trust them implicitly. It's different as you both don't trust her

The smoking and the enforced holding/cuddling to the point of screaming would be complete deal-breakers for me. The "don't touch" would drive me batty but I can see that children have to learn not to touch and to respect belongings. To combat that I would take lots of toys and remove, myself, anything very precious out of the way.

There's absolutely no reason for such a small child to stay overnight without you and, with the smoking and the unwanted physical attention, I wouldn't be letting a child stay over ever. And I wouldn't hesitate to cite the smoking as a reason not to allow a child to stay over. Yes she may be offended but so what? It's your child's well-being that is at stake here and that trumps any desire by GPs to have sleep-overs.